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Old 12-01-2021, 07:00 PM   #1
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Adding a second inverter inquiry

Wondering if anyone has gone through the trouble of installing a second 3000 watt inverter and what is involved?

I have an all electric coach and would like to be able to use anything while boondocking.

Ted.
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Old 12-01-2021, 07:06 PM   #2
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I think the first concern would be installing more batteries. A second inverter would be nice, but it would be drawing from the same battery bank, with no real advantage.
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Old 12-01-2021, 08:31 PM   #3
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I have considered this along with lithium batteries
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Old 12-01-2021, 09:11 PM   #4
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You will want to use an inverter that can be paralleled with the other. Victron for example can be connected via a data cable and the 2 will work together and not separately. I have 2-3000W inverters that are programmed in split-phase (220V) but could also be paralleled.....either way, works based on the application.

I am not aware of other brands being able to communicate with each other.
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Old 12-01-2021, 09:40 PM   #5
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Isolating load and charging positive busses

In our 5th wheel when I rebuilt the 12 volt system I installed two positive buss bars. One for all loads and the second for all charging sources. The load buss is connected tot he charging buss bar with a switch between them. There is also a large breaker and master switch right off the battery.

All grounds are attached to a single negative buss and the metering shunt.

In our MH I'm looking at doing a similar setup.

I was wondering how many other RVs have been configured in a similar way?
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Old 12-01-2021, 09:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
I think the first concern would be installing more batteries. A second inverter would be nice, but it would be drawing from the same battery bank, with no real advantage.
Definitely. I have a lot of options and the ideal solution would be a 48v 8kw victron inverter but I dont want to abandon the systems on board now.

So Ill probably add a 3-4kw Magnum inverter and keep my existing controls, but all of it would be worthless without a serious battery bank.

When I finally do something with this system, it will include about 20-30 kwh of li-ion batteries so I can run an air conditioner for a reasonable length of time.

Theres much more to it of course and this isnt the place to elaborate, but the point is, a bigger inverter is useless without more energy to invert.
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Old 12-02-2021, 07:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Wold View Post
Definitely. I have a lot of options and the ideal solution would be a 48v 8kw victron inverter but I dont want to abandon the systems on board now.

So Ill probably add a 3-4kw Magnum inverter and keep my existing controls, but all of it would be worthless without a serious battery bank.

When I finally do something with this system, it will include about 20-30 kwh of li-ion batteries so I can run an air conditioner for a reasonable length of time.

Theres much more to it of course and this isnt the place to elaborate, but the point is, a bigger inverter is useless without more energy to invert.
You can go with a 24 or 48V inverter/charger and you will not have to abandon the existing 12V systems.

In our case, we chose 24V as we have a large battery bank (1050Ah) but still maintain the onboard 12V house systems, including our HWH leveling system which can use up to 125A (@12V). this is easily accomplished through a 24-12V converter, we use the Victron Orion 24-12/70 (X2) which easily provides the 12V power we need......it is adjustable so you will always have steady 12V voltage, in our case we are always at 13.3V and our house systems have run without issue for 2 years now.
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Old 12-02-2021, 07:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
I think the first concern would be installing more batteries. A second inverter would be nice, but it would be drawing from the same battery bank, with no real advantage.
I have a pretty serious battery bank as you might recall, and I always have the Generator as a back up.

I would like all the circuits that are on Shore only to be lit up when on the battery bank.

I know I would be limited on time of use but that doesn't bother me much.

I could run the cooktop and or 1 AC unit, while traveling or boondocking which I can't do without running the generator now.

I wonder if Magnum is able to communicate off the 1 controller or would I need 2 controllers and a complicated system to make it work.

I see a lot of the larger coached have 2 magnums and wondering how that is all wired?

Ted.
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Old 12-02-2021, 09:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vickie 4369 View Post
I have a pretty serious battery bank as you might recall, and I always have the Generator as a back up.

I would like all the circuits that are on Shore only to be lit up when on the battery bank.

I know I would be limited on time of use but that doesn't bother me much.

I could run the cooktop and or 1 AC unit, while traveling or boondocking which I can't do without running the generator now.

I wonder if Magnum is able to communicate off the 1 controller or would I need 2 controllers and a complicated system to make it work.

I see a lot of the larger coached have 2 magnums and wondering how that is all wired?

Ted.
That is how we are wired....everything will operate from the inverter(s) and we typically run one of the rooftop AC units during the summer months while driving out here in the desert.

We removed the inverter subpanel, moved those circuits onto the main panel, and wired each side (L1, L2) of the panel directly to the inverters when Shope power is not available. In our case, we envision a future multizone mini-split so we went with split-phase and replaced the inverter subpanel with a 220V panel with a single 20A circuit that will power if/when we do install.

I think you would only need to have your inverters communicate if they were in fact going to be used in a split-phase environment.
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Old 12-02-2021, 10:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul65k View Post
That is how we are wired....everything will operate from the inverter(s) and we typically run one of the rooftop AC units during the summer months while driving out here in the desert.

We removed the inverter subpanel, moved those circuits onto the main panel, and wired each side (L1, L2) of the panel directly to the inverters when Shope power is not available. In our case, we envision a future multizone mini-split so we went with split-phase and replaced the inverter subpanel with a 220V panel with a single 20A circuit that will power if/when we do install.

I think you would only need to have your inverters communicate if they were in fact going to be used in a split-phase environment.
Forgive me as I do not have a complete understanding of the term split phase.

I can envision that 1 leg goes directly from shore power to one side of the power energy management panel and the other Leg passes through the inverter powering the other side of the PEM panel.

Is this correct?

Also wonder how the PEM would handle 2 inverters..

Ted.
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Old 12-02-2021, 10:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Forgive me as I do not have a complete understanding of the term split phase.

I can envision that 1 leg goes directly from shore power to one side of the power energy management panel and the other Leg passes through the inverter powering the other side of the PEM panel.

Is this correct?

Also wonder how the PEM would handle 2 inverters..

Ted.
Split phase or "220" as some refer to it require that the 2 power lines are 180* out of phase which is what is required to run 220V appliances. An RV typically does not require this and simply runs 2 banks of 120V regardless of phase.
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Old 12-02-2021, 10:43 AM   #12
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Split phase or "220" as some refer to it require that the 2 power lines are 180* out of phase which is what is required to run 220V appliances. An RV typically does not require this and simply runs 2 banks of 120V regardless of phase.
220Vac and 120Vac are the same phase (single phase).
True 3 phase is 120 degrees apart. (I won't go into open delta banks)
There is no electric source 180 degrees apart.
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Old 12-02-2021, 11:05 AM   #13
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Split phase or "220" as some refer to it require that the 2 power lines are 180* out of phase which is what is required to run 220V appliances. An RV typically does not require this and simply runs 2 banks of 120V regardless of phase.
I do believe this is a little misleading. While there are no 220 split phase appliances in most RV, it still requires the panel to be wired for split phase.

You need to understand how 220/240 split phase works.

Lets take a 240 supply. Line 1 has 120v, line 2 has 120 volts, and both return to a common neutral. Lines 1 and 2 are 180 out of phase. Meaning when power is going in from line one, it is going out from line two. The neutral handles the power both ways. Realize AC power reverses direction 120 times per second, giving the 60hz power we use.

If you balance the load on lines 1 and 2, the load on the neutral will show zero. That means the power on the neutral is going in and out 180 degrees from each line. That is why for a 50 amp campground panel, you can actually draw 100 amps and the neutral can be the same size. If it were single phase coming in, power on both lines 1 and 2 could be traveling the same direction IE:the same phase, at the same time, requiring the neutral to handle up to 100 amps.

In reality, while you can measure 240v across both lines of an RV circuit you could not use it that way without replacing the neutral wire with a large enough one to handle 100 amps. The distribution panel would also need to be changed to handle 240v.

To answer the OP's original question. It would help to know the make and model, and for that matter age of your inverter. Both inverters need to be identical and need to be able to communicate with each other. In theory 2 3000 watt inverters could be run through a split phase distribution panel as each, running full power puts out approximately 25 amps. So 2 x 25 is 50, and the distribution panel is wired for that. The question is if the inverters are not in split phase, what happens to the return power? It probably would damage the inverters and let the factory installed smoke out.

It sounds like you want more AC power. In that case you need to have two matched inverters that can communicate split phase so the neutral will handle it.

It sounds like you have a Xantrex so I would start there.
https://www.xantrex.com/power-produc.../overview.aspx

But if you are going to need to replace your current inverter as they have nothing that can work with what you have, I would seriously consider looking at Victron. Both Xantrex and Victron have pass through hybrid inverters that work really well. I happen to like the Victron because you can set all of there equipment, inverter/chargers, battery monitors, solar charge controlers, DC-DC chargers through one app and monitor them all at the same time.

If you just want to be able to run everything, just not at once, you could put a phase selector switch in that you manually turn from shore power to inverter power and it sends power to your entire coach. But you still only have 3000 watts.
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Old 12-02-2021, 11:38 AM   #14
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Let me ask a question in order to clarify what I think has been posted.


2 Inverters could be utilized in a panel, but the loads need to be manually split between Inverter 1 and inverter 2


The incoming power for shore has a L1 and L2, as does the generator.


As long as no 220V appliance is in play, then Inverter 1 can be wired to L1 and inverter 2 can be wired to L2.


The part that I fall apart is the neutral line. I don't think it is proper to combine the neutral for Inverter 1 and inverter 2.


Can someone clarify that?
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