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Old 03-31-2015, 05:05 PM   #1
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AGS temp sensor, set point/delay?

Time for another chapter in my book of Dumb Newbie Questions.

Regarding temperature-sensing auto gen-start:

1. Which temperature sensor does the AGS use in a modern (2015) model? Is there one in the Magnum remote itself? Or does it piggyback on one of the three coach (Dometic) sensors?

2. How exactly does the AGS decide to kill the generator after a high-temp event is triggered? The docs are vague on this, and it seems strange that it would not model a hysteresis loop or have some kind of delay. For example, I set trigger temp to 80F. Zones 1 through 3 are set to Cool to 76F. Temperature reaches 80F. AGS decides to power up gen. A/C comes on. Coach begins to cool. Question is, at what point does AGS call it a day and shut down? (Is it the "gen run time" setting?)

Thanks again, ladies and gents,

Ben
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:08 PM   #2
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It reads zone 1 on the thermostat and is all set on the Magnum controller.
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:13 PM   #3
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It reads zone 1 on the thermostat and is all set on the Magnum controller.
Oh, lovely. That's the one that's reading 15deg high because it's touching the wall. :-) But thanks!

I'm not sure if your second clause was a response to my second question, but if so, I'm afraid I don't follow. Please do elaborate. I just went through all of the menu options on the Magnum under AGS, and I've read the manual, and I'm still not sure what logic it uses... but, probably, I am the dummy here!
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:34 PM   #4
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When you're in the magnum; in the AGS button there should be one setting labeled run temp. Set the temp you want it to turn on at.

Make sure auto gen is set to on.

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I would walk you through step by step, but I've changed my controller and the set up is different.
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:35 PM   #5
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It could be under the set up button, that's where it is on my present controller.
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:11 PM   #6
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When you're in the magnum; in the AGS button there should be one setting labeled run temp. Set the temp you want it to turn on at.
Thanks, I'm being vague again I bet. I have it turning on just fine. I just can't figure out when it will decide to turn itself off?
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:13 PM   #7
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It shuts off after the temp has been reached and the genny goes through a cool down time.

Easy test, crank all the numbers around till it turns on and can reach the preset temp.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:58 PM   #8
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It shuts off after the temp has been reached and the genny goes through a cool down time.

Easy test, crank all the numbers around till it turns on and can reach the preset temp.
Okay, thanks John. I wish they would document it specifically. Understanding how it works will let me program it to keep the dogs safe and reduce the chance of the genset cycling on and off all afternoon.

I did attempt a test today, but unfortunately my zone 1 thermostat is reading the wall temperature instead of the air, so it never changes. (It does trigger the AGS, which is good!)
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:23 AM   #9
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Here is an example that should help: set the wall unit to 75. This means with power the ac will run until the temp reads 72.
Set the magnum to a temp higher than 75 (and adjust for any variance between the two sensors). I would suggest 85.
There is a setting for minimum runtime and that should be set to the time that it takes to drop the 10 degrees, I set to 30 min. Then the cool down time should be set to 10-15 min.

This should allow for the air to run long enough to drop well below 85, and not cycle frequently.

If you find the unit cycling more than every 2 hrs, I would either adjust the set points or just turn the generator on and leave it on.
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:43 AM   #10
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I did attempt a test today, but unfortunately my zone 1 thermostat is reading the wall temperature instead of the air, so it never changes. (It does trigger the AGS, which is good!)
Did you complain to Newmar about this? I have told Newmar this is an issue and quoted them the Dometic manual which says "do not install the sensor on an external wall". like you mine reads 15 degrees higher if the sun is on that side of the coach.
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:53 AM   #11
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As of a couple months ago I have the ME-AGS-N installed and operational. I paired it up with the ME-BMK and ME-ARC. When I first bought the coach I was not really savvy about the whole thing and ASSUMED that since there was an AGS readout on the remote monitor that I had an AGS. LOL

Consider this...

IMHO, the high temp setting is best use to maintain AC functions when there is an unexpected loss of shore power. For pets that could be a serious emergency. Location of the sensor itself will greatly dictate what high temp you set it for. I opted for a fairly simple routing of the temp sensor instead of snaking it up and around to find the "Perfect" place to emulate my thermostats. My temp sensor is on the passenger side near the door and being on a wall does pick up the heat of the wall. For that reason I set my high temp at 95* because it is typically 10*-15* warmer than the center of the coach on sunny days with the passenger side facing the sun. Even if it is a hot but cloudy day that wall will be close to 10* warmer than the coaches core.

The high temp auto start is probably not a good use of the generator for comfort needs when boon docking but that is a personal opinion. Die hard boon dockers that want to use AC might have different opinions. In such a case it would be important that the sensor is located in a way to better emulate the coach's thermostat or the thermostats were properly integrated with the AGS via the optional pigtail adaptors. If not, setting for that kind of use should probably be significantly different. At this time my AGS does not communicate with my AC systems. I haven't decided that running the connections for the optional pig tail adaptors linking it to my AC controls is worth the effort for our current needs. Who knows, if I get bored...

The following is my understanding of the ME-ARC settings as outlined in manual pages 70-72 that I am attaching if I get that right. LOL Of course, no autostart feature will activate if shore power is detected.

In addition to the basic high temp autostart, there are 3 basic ways the generator will auto stop with regards to the high temp setting.

1. The sensor is below the high temp setting. I set it to 95* because of the reasons already stated. If the temp sensor gets below 95* it will auto stop AFTER it reaches the high temp run time.

2. The generator reaches the high temp run time. I set my run time to 1 hour. If the sensor is below the high temp setting the generator will auto stop. If the sensor is at or above the high temp setting the generator will continue running and repeat the 1 hour cycle. As an example, if you set a 1 hour run time the system checks the temp at the end and either auto stops because the temp is low enough or repeats and runs an additional 1 hour...repeats as needed. This is good news/bad news. Unless you have your high temp setting extremely low 1 hour should be sufficient to get the coach temps down below that high temp setting.

3. The generator has reached the maximum run time. I set mine for 3 hours. Reaching this setting is BAAAAD! It will override all auto stop commands and set a fault status. That fault status MUST be removed before the AGS will work as desired. For that reason I set my max run time to 3 hours. I am much less concerned about fuel burned than having the AGS shut down entirely.

BTW...other auto start parameters that were triggered will override other auto stop settings. In other wards...the generator will run until ALL activated auto start/stop sequences have been completed.

FWIW a few my other generator setting:

1. Warm up 2 minutes. That is plenty of time.
2. Cool down 5 minutes. I think anything longer is excessive.
3. SOC 65%-90%. This is for occasional use but if I was boon docking a lot I would consider bumping that up to 70% - 100% to keep batteries happy. See page 70. My current setting would also help avoid excessive run time to meet SOC issues that might be caused by temporary loss of shore power.

I hope this all helps and if anyone finds fault in my interpretation of the user's manual go ahead and toss your thoughts out.
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File Type: pdf ME-ARC_Web.pdf (997.9 KB, 42 views)
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebster View Post
Time for another chapter in my book of Dumb Newbie Questions.

Regarding temperature-sensing auto gen-start:

1. Which temperature sensor does the AGS use in a modern (2015) model? Is there one in the Magnum remote itself? Or does it piggyback on one of the three coach (Dometic) sensors?

2. How exactly does the AGS decide to kill the generator after a high-temp event is triggered? The docs are vague on this, and it seems strange that it would not model a hysteresis loop or have some kind of delay. For example, I set trigger temp to 80F. Zones 1 through 3 are set to Cool to 76F. Temperature reaches 80F. AGS decides to power up gen. A/C comes on. Coach begins to cool. Question is, at what point does AGS call it a day and shut down? (Is it the "gen run time" setting?)

Thanks again, ladies and gents,

Ben
I know I gave my typical, long winded answer...here is the short version...

1. I would believe that if your unit came delivered with the AGS that the manufacturer installed all the required pieces to integrate with your thermostats. If not, they would have had to install a single sensor somewhere in the coach. Regardless of whether or not it was integrated with the coach's thermostats, the sensor information is fed first to the AGS module and then networked through the inverter to the remote control.

2. Assuming the AC does its job well and reduces the coach temps to a point below the high temp limit the AGS will auto stop when the high temp run time is reached. If the run time is set to 30 minutes but it only takes 15 minutes to get to that point, the generator will still run for 30 minutes plus cool down.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:56 PM   #13
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Thanks for the tips and detailed comments, guys. I've done some more fooling around, and I'm still a bit confused.

First, though, my Dutch Star comes with the ME-RC remote, which I guess is the dumbed-down version without a lot of the options you've laid out, Don. I don't get to configure many of those timings. (I do plan to add the BMK one day so I can see SOC and view energy consumption.)

Second, I do have a way to view the temperature as seen by the AGS temp sensor. Problem is, it's not matchign any of the three Dometic sensors in the coach! Right now it's a little chilly outside here in Colorado, and I have heatpumps coming on from time to time. Current inside temps are 69, 71, and 69F. But the AGS is showing 87F.

There must be a dedicated sensor for the AGS, but where it is wired, I have no idea. I guess I'll add it to the list to be debugged.

The settings you all have suggested seem reasonable for protecting the pups. We don't expect to leave them for long stretches on blazingly hot days without reliable shore power, and we'll try to back things up with a separate sensor and alert to my phone, but this needs to be reliable for the dogs' sake of course!

(John, what did you change your controller to, out of curiosity?)
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:55 AM   #14
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I have the ME-ARC, along with the Battery Monitor Kit.

I do not believe the Magnum control monitors the temp like that. The 87 degrees, I think is your set point.
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