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Old 04-04-2023, 09:06 AM   #1
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Amount of Solar Panels

Hi,

I searched and couldn't find this topic (though its probably here somewhere). We have a 2022 Newmar Mountain Aire 4118. I am having solar panels installed. Leaning toward this package that was recommended to me that says 600 watts. (https://gopowersolar.com/products/so...tem-600-watts/).

Question, assuming we are in a close to full sun situation, is this sufficient to generate enough electricity to the batteries to offset basic usage - fridge, lights, TV. I have seen the usage estimation approaches, but I am an electric idiot, so hoping to really just cover basic/minimal usage so we don't have to run generator nonstop in a boondock type situation (tailgate for example). As well as, when we are parked without shore power getting maintenance or repairs, we at least have a chance to keep some power in the batteries.

Any help is appreciated.

Mickey
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Old 04-04-2023, 09:20 AM   #2
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In full sun, the 28.8 amps according the specs in the link is probably not enough to cover everything you've mentioned on at once. But when boondocking, you're relying on your batteries plus solar to cover your loads. When load is less than the solar input, then the balance of the solar input goes into the batteries for charging. You don't mention anything about batteries, which is a critical component of a boondocking power system. The 3000 watt inverter is adequate to run everything.
It is a decent sized system, but if you are running a residential fridge that only operates on electric then I don't think it is enough and you'll need to run the generator daily to stay ahead.

EDIT just googled your coach, what a beautiful rig! Specs says it already has a 3000 watt inverter. You shouldn't need to buy another? Careful with kits, they are convenient for getting everything at once but in this instance the kit has expensive component you shouldn't need.
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Old 04-04-2023, 09:31 AM   #3
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Hmm, something is wrong with those specs. With this package, the solar panels are capable of producing 50 amps of charge current at 12-volts (600 watts / 12-volts = 50 amps) but the solar charge controller can only handle a maximum of 30 amps of charge current. That means, at peak, you're losing 20 amps or 40% of your total output.

Also, that PWM controller is going to be less efficient than a properly sized MPPT controller. I think you'd do better to source the panels and charge controller separately rather than relying on a questionably matched kit.

Here's a quick guide to the differences between MPPT and PWM: https://www.altestore.com/diy-solar-...e-controllers/

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Old 04-04-2023, 09:32 AM   #4
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Not an expert by any means but once "experimented" with adding panels to my 40ft pusher--test environment was dry camping in Q-site during January. Lower sun angles in January but dont need fans or AC. With a residential fridge and modest propane furnace heat at night, 600watts was a bit short--still needed some genset time. While 600watts is a good size system, 800-1000watts is better. Also need 600-800 AH of battery storage, less with LI to match. Assume you have an OEM inverter in coach, why add another inverter w/ the package?
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Old 04-04-2023, 09:41 AM   #5
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PS--your 2022 MA could already be pre-wired for some solar. IMHO--this is sort of a low end generic kit for residential use. Need to look at solutions more tailored to RV applications. Wire size, cable routing, panel voltage, controllers, parallel vs series, shading issues, roof mounting, etc. all factor into RV applications....
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Old 04-04-2023, 09:47 AM   #6
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Thank you all for the quick feedback.

One clarification I should have noted, responding to questions on the Inverter. Yes, I do have a 3000W inverter on the rig we will use. I am not actually buying that entire package, but that was the closest I could find to share the capabilities. The RV guy we use for stuff like that mostly uses those panels and controller, so we are only buying those necessary components. He is going to look at what was pre-wired and make sure the wiring is sufficient.

So, initial feedback sounds like I should consider 1 more panel and a better controller. RV guy did mention if I wanted to go to a 4th or more panels, he would want to upgrade to a better controller, I will find out what that was.

Mickey
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Old 04-04-2023, 10:12 AM   #7
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Thanks for all the feedback.

Assuming space is adequate, we are going to do 4 - 200 watt panels and then use an MPPT controller. 3000W inverter is already there and they are going to evaluate if pre-wire size is sufficient or if we need to upgrade that.

<Mickey
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Old 04-04-2023, 10:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroach003 View Post
Thank you all for the quick feedback.

One clarification I should have noted, responding to questions on the Inverter. Yes, I do have a 3000W inverter on the rig we will use. I am not actually buying that entire package, but that was the closest I could find to share the capabilities. The RV guy we use for stuff like that mostly uses those panels and controller, so we are only buying those necessary components. He is going to look at what was pre-wired and make sure the wiring is sufficient.

So, initial feedback sounds like I should consider 1 more panel and a better controller. RV guy did mention if I wanted to go to a 4th or more panels, he would want to upgrade to a better controller, I will find out what that was.

Mickey
You need to figure out what your goal is for the solar install. I have 800W of solar and 824AH of lithium batteries. I still use my generator to top off batteries in the evening at times. Granted I'm not conservative with my battery use and run a cpap with humidifier through the night. 600W of solar alone will not replace generator time.

Not to be disrespectful of your RV guy. If he uses those components for most solar installs, I would look for someone else to install a solar system for you. I would look for someone that does solar installs on a regular basis, they can advise you on your needs and quality components to use.
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Old 04-04-2023, 10:54 AM   #9
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I would consider a 5th panel. Sun isn't always at the optimum angle and an extra panel would help. The panels are the cheapest part of your system. You said your "RV Guy". I would search your area for a company that does RV solar exclusively for best results.
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Old 04-04-2023, 11:00 AM   #10
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I have a Zamp Solar system on my 2022 Ventana that consists of 4 170 watt rooftop mounted panels rated at 9.5 amps each. My inverter is rated at 2800 watts. I spent a week off the grid on the Bonneville Salt Flats for Speed Week last August and this setup kept my batteries charged just fine. It handled my residential refrigerator, interior lights when needed, ceiling fans, phone charging, etc. The only time I ran my generator was in the morning for maybe 5 minutes to boil water for coffee on my induction cooktop.
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Old 04-04-2023, 11:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveaday View Post
Hmm, something is wrong with those specs. With this package, the solar panels are capable of producing 50 amps of charge current at 12-volts (600 watts / 12-volts = 50 amps) but the solar charge controller can only handle a maximum of 30 amps of charge current. That means, at peak, you're losing 20 amps or 40% of your total output.

Also, that PWM controller is going to be less efficient than a properly sized MPPT controller. I think you'd do better to source the panels and charge controller separately rather than relying on a questionably matched kit.

Here's a quick guide to the differences between MPPT and PWM: https://www.altestore.com/diy-solar-...e-controllers/

-Ben
600 watts / 28.8 amps (from specs in link) = 20.8V, which sounds about right for 12V panels. So using the PWM controller, the user could see 14.4V * 28.8 amps = 414 watts or more under ideal circumstances and depending on charging setpoints. Definitely cutting it close spec'ing a 30 amp max controller with up to 28.8 amps from the panels. An MPPT controller should be able to get the full 600 watts though. I think the difference between PWM and MPPT at peak efficiency as PWM is amps in = amps out, MPPT is watts in = watts out.

EDIT I read an update from OP saying updated plan is 800 watts of panel and MPPT controller. Sounds nice! Consider installing panels with an option to tilt to really max the harvest. Of course that means climbing on top of the coach to do that, fixed and flat and just adding another panel can be easier!
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Old 04-04-2023, 11:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ventana-3412 View Post

Not to be disrespectful of your RV guy. If he uses those components for most solar installs, I would look for someone else to install a solar system for you. I would look for someone that does solar installs on a regular basis, they can advise you on your needs and quality components to use.
I completely agree.... You have a beautiful DP and you're looking at putting a very basic package that at best would be suited for a TT. Go Power is the easy-to-get stuff from RV parts distributors for shops that do little to no professional solar installations.

I highly recommend you spend time with a qualified, and certified Solar Installer, that does nothing but solar in RVs and get their recommendations.

I can't tell you how many solar installations installed by Professional RV Techs that just don't get it done and we need to redo
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Old 04-04-2023, 11:52 AM   #13
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We have (6) 170 watt PV panels roof mounted , with (2) 30 amp smart charge controllers feeding the house bank(6) 6 seriesLifeline AGM units. In full summer sun directly over head, no shade we will see approx. 25 -30 amps charge for each of (2) charge controllers and house bank needing charging. We are commercial /industrial electrical contractors and PV installers and consider it a good system if we can achieve a 70% output from a PV system. Stay safe.
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Old 04-04-2023, 12:02 PM   #14
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In my opinion you need at least 1200 watts of solar panels just to run the refrigerator, lights, and a few small items.
The issues: Winter days are much shorter, shading greatly reduces output, mornings and late afternoon sun angles reduce output, panels should be tilted at the optimum angle but most installs are flat, heat losses, northern latitudes get less sun, and more.
Also, don't make the common mistake of confusing Watts with amps. Solar panels are rated in Watts. Volts X amps = watts. So it takes lots of Watts at 12v to make a few amps.
Good luck!
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