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Old 07-17-2021, 03:06 PM   #1
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Basic brake information

Hello,

I'm looking into getting my non-commercial Class B driver's license here in NC, as that's the legal requirement for an RV over 26K pounds, which my 2019 Dutch Star 4369 Spartan well exceeds! :-) And this despite the fact that I've already driven it over 15,000 miles to California and back. But I figure better safe than sorry, in case if I ever have an accident not having the proper license might cause insurance issues.

Anyway, my understanding is the key education I need to be sure I've got before taking the test is the air brakes operation, and in trying to research the info on my unit I've discovered that there are a couple of very basic things that I don't really know/understand, and the manuals provided at purchase don't really seem to provide much in the way of basic info on brake system checks and inspection.

I've got a basic understanding of the air brake system, and the fact that the primary tank operates the rear brakes while the secondary tank operates the front, and I'm familiar with the grey/green/red tank drain cords and their operation, and I understand the gauges and the auto-on/off and warning lights/sounds as pressures cross 60/80/100/140 etc.

But here are the basic things I really don't know:

1) Are the brakes disc or drum? Disc for front and drum for rear-drive/rear-tag? Other?

2) Does my coach have the "slack adjusters" and do they need to be manually inspected as part of the "pre-drive checklist" (at least with respect to getting the Class B license)? The NC driver's manual talks a lot about the slack adjusters, but I don't even know if I've got them, what they look like, and how to "check" them.

It's a bit embarrassing that I don't already know all this stuff, as I've been a lifetime motorcycle and auto mechanic, and hence I'm quite familiar with working on both disc and drum bakes on motorcycles and cars. But I'm just completely unfamiliar with the huge diesel Spartan chassis, and I'm not at the RV to try to crawl under it to discover the types of brakes its got (or if that's even visible without removing the wheels).

Anyway, thanks in advance for any insights on this!

Tom
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Old 07-17-2021, 04:03 PM   #2
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Suggest you spend some time talking with Freightliner guys.

Is that license required for private use? It is my understanding that you only need licenses if it becomes a commercial operation. But i am basing that more on hearsay.
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Old 07-17-2021, 04:09 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sartor View Post
Hello,

....

1) Are the brakes disc or drum? Disc for front and drum for rear-drive/rear-tag? Other?

Tom
Most RV brakes are drum. However, as the units get heavier or the higher lines, they may have the disk brakes. Most newmar hi-lines have disk brakes with their later models. Even the tag axles on the higher/later models have disk brakes. Though some manufacturers are now going back to drum for the tag axle. So it all depends on the year, make model and the RV manufacturer's spec for the chassis.

For your unit, you 'maybe' able to see the disk brakes thru the wheels.

The slack adj, may be a drum brake item.
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Old 07-17-2021, 04:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVStitchy View Post
Suggest you spend some time talking with Freightliner guys.

Is that license required for private use? It is my understanding that you only need licenses if it becomes a commercial operation. But i am basing that more on hearsay.
Hi RVStitchy,

See the original post: Spartan, not Freightliner. And yes, in NC, one is required to get a NON-commercial (not a *commercial*) Class B license if the vehicle is over 26K pounds.

Tom
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Old 07-17-2021, 05:19 PM   #5
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Hi Tom - In 2018 the Spartan K2 for Newmar had disc on the steer and tag with drum on the drive. In 2019 it was disc on the steer and drum on the tag and drive. Depends on which year chassis you have as chassis year and coach year do not always line up.
You have automatic slack adjusters. They apply to drum brakes.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-17-2021, 05:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
Hi Tom - In 2018 the Spartan K2 for Newmar had disc on the steer and tag with drum on the drive. In 2019 it was disc on the steer and drum on the tag and drive. Depends on which year chassis you have as chassis year and coach year do not always line up.
You have automatic slack adjusters. They apply to drum brakes.

Hope this helps.
Tom
Thanks Tom! Do you happen to know if/where in my documentation I can determine the year of the Spartan K2 chassis? I know my Dutch Star *model* year is 2019, and the sticker near the floor behind/left of the driver's seat that gives the Spartan info (axle weights, etc.) indicates a manufacturing date of 7/31/2018. But I'm not sure if that necessarily means it's a 2018 Spartan K2 or perhaps a 2019 Spartan K2. Perhaps I need to call Newmar and/or Spartan and inquire, based on my coach number/VIN/chassis serial numbers? That sticker also indicates my "rear axle model number" as "22060SH."

As for the automatic slack adjusters, sounds like you're saying that they are *only* used on the drum brakes, not on the discs. Would you happen to be familiar with the procedure for checking/inspecting them? The generic info at the NC drivers license handbook just talks about "walk around and pull on the slack adjusters to see if they're good," with nothing more informative than that! :-)

Thanks for the info you've already provided! :-)

Tom
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Old 07-17-2021, 06:19 PM   #7
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Tom, you can simply look at your brakes front and rear and determine what you have. Your coach has disc brakes on the front (first photo) and drum brakes on the drive axle, (second photo). As stated, if your coach was built on a 2018 Spartan chassis, you will still have drum brakes on the drive axle and disc on the tag.

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Your drive axle drum brakes have automatic slack adjusters. As the brake shoes start to wear, the slack adjusters automatically adjust them so you always have the same brake pedal. Unless they have an issue, you should never need to touch your slack adjusters.

I find it unusual that they would want an RV owner to physically adjust the slack adjusters, especially automatic adjusters. It's really not something that should be done by someone who isn't experienced in adjusting them.

I think they probably want you to know how they work. Here is a video of someone adjusting/checking the slack adjusters. I would verify what they actually expect you to do, before making yourself crazy over this.



Here is something I've kept in my files......

AIR GOVERNOR TEST

This test identifies the upper and lower limits of the air pressures. Start the engine and allow the air pressure to build up until it reaches its maximum and the compressor turns off (this should be no more than 130 pounds of pressure). You may hear the spitter valve pop when the maximum pressure is reached. Then depress the service (foot) brake several times. Each time you depress the service brake pedal the air pressure will go down and you can see the pressure go down on the air gauge. Wait about 2 seconds between each time you depress the brake pedal in order to see if the compressor restarts and the air gauge needles start going up again. Watch the air gauge and keep doing this until the compressor restarts. The compressor should restart at or above 85 pounds of air pressure. Now you know the maximum air pressure in your system and the air pressure where the compressor restarts. NOTE: There are two needles in the air gauge. One is for the front air tank and one is for the rear air tank. They should be close together, no more than 2-4 pounds apart. If they diverge too much it may indicate a problem with one of the air tanks.

STATIC BRAKE TEST

This test checks for leaks in the air tanks. Continuing from the AIR GOVERNOR TEST above, the air pressure should be at its maximum for this test. You should be stopped in a level position (block the wheels if it is not perfectly level). Place the automatic transmission in neutral (manual transmissions can be put in reverse gear), turn the engine off, keep your foot off the service brake, and release the parking brake. NOTE: Be sure the vehicle does not roll. Looking at the air pressure gauge, the air loss should not exceed 2 pounds in one minute.

APPLIED BRAKE TEST

This test checks for leaks in the air lines. Continuing from the STATIC BRAKE TEST above, depress the service brake pedal and keep it fully depressed for one minute. Watch the air gauge needles. After the air pressure has stabilized (the needles stop moving), the air loss should not exceed 3 pounds in one minute (tap the gauge occasionally). One caution, do not apply too much pressure on the service brake pedal.

LOW AIR WARNING DEVICE TEST

This test checks to see that the low air warning system is working. Continuing from the APPLIED BRAKE TEST above, turn ignition switch fully on but do NOT start the engine. Look at the air pressure gauge and continuously pump the service brake until you can see the warning light come on and/or hear the warning buzzer. If your buzzer sounds because of the low oil pressure switch, just look for the low air warning light to come on. The low air light should come on at pressures below 60 pounds. NOTE: If the low air warning light or buzzer comes on while you are driving, immediately move off the highway because soon after the low air warning comes on the emergency brake will be applied automatically and you will stop where ever you are at that time.

EMERGENCY BRAKE SYSTEM TEST

This test checks to see whether the parking brake applies automatically if the air pressure gets too low. Continuing from the LOW AIR WARNING DEVICE TEST above, turn off the ignition and continue to pump the service brake pedal until the parking brake handle pops up of its own accord. This should happen at pressures below 45 pounds. After it pops up, start the engine but do NOT touch the parking brake (it is on at this point). Try to SLOWLY drive the vehicle with the low air pressure warning on. The emergency brake is still on so it should hold you back.

EMERGENCY BRAKE TEST

This test checks whether the emergency brake works manually. Continuing from the EMERGENCY BRAKE SYSTEM TEST, keep the engine running and allow the air pressure to build up until it is at full pressure (the spitter valve will pop). Put the coach in Drive and release the parking brake. Drive the coach at about 5 miles per hour and apply the parking brake (not the service brake pedal). It should stop you fairly quickly.

CHECK SERVICE BRAKES

This test checks whether the service brakes are working and also whether they may need adjusting. Continuing from the EMERGENCY BRAKE TEST, drive the coach at about 5 miles per hour, loosely hold the steering wheel and apply the service brake pedal firmly to see whether the steering wheel pulls to the left or the right. If it pulls in either direction you may need to have your brakes adjusted. Furthermore, if you apply the service brake and the two needles on the air gauge move farther apart than their normal (small) divergence, this is an indicator that the brakes may need adjusting.
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Old 07-17-2021, 09:42 PM   #8
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Slack adjusters are NOT in a place for a quick glancing visual. You have to crawl under your motorhome to see them. You are looking for something like this:

https://jumpstarterexpert.com/wp-con...k-Adjuster.jpg

Here is a picture of the general location relative to your brake drum. As you can see, you have to get under the coach and look up and inside your brake drum area.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...c91465ec63e9-c

You Tube has many videos on slack adjuster operation and maintenance.

By all means, though, answer the question as they want it answered even though you would not be looking at these daily or doing anything to them other than they require periodic greasing (notice the zerk on the picture). Different brands of them have different grease specifications, so if you do your own maintenance, be sure to know what brand is on your coach so you know the recommended lubricant specification.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:52 AM   #9
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Look up the You Tube video on air brake testing.
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Old 07-18-2021, 11:08 AM   #10
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Just offering this up.


My former coach had drum brakes and automatic adjusters. By airing up the system while parked, and pushing down hard on the brake treadle, the automatic adjusters would activate and you could hear them "clunk". This was on a Freightliner chassis.

Perhaps this is something the testers want the OP to know and demonstrate. I don't think they expect or want someone to manually inspect or adjust them.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:15 PM   #11
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I also live in NC and got my Non commercial class B when I moved up to a DP.

I believe they ask about slack adjusters as the tests you have to take is the same for truckers…so many questions do not apply to Motorhomes…. I had to learn things like how many straps I needed to hold down my cargo, etc…. Fun stuff. Also hade to take a road test. My tester was more interested in the RV then the test.

PM if you have any questions.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:29 PM   #12
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Thanks to all for the posts with the helpful information!

To follow-up and answer a few of the questions/clarify my dilemma, yes, I'm already very familiar with the difference between disc and drum brakes, having worked on both for many years. It's just that I don't know what's on *my* coach, and with it being half hour away from me in storage, I was hoping somebody "just knew." And if I'm recalling correctly (and I may well not be), it's hard (impossible?) to tell the brake type without actually removing the wheel so you can see the brake apparatus which is hidden underneath/behind it. Perhaps if I crawled under and looked from the back side I'd be able to see if there was a disc caliper vs. a drum hub, but I can't recall without being there. And when it comes to the *drive* axle (with four tires rather than just two), I don't think I can really see in there completely to discover the brake type. So in my ignorance I wasn't even sure if there are *four* sets of brakes on the 4-tire drive axle, or just two sets (one on each axle end), and if there were four sets are they all the same (for all I know it could be disc brakes on the outer wheels and drum brakes on the inner wheels).

And I understand the function of the slack adjusters, and that they're "automatic" on my coach, but in answer to one of the questions, the NC Driver's Handbook for getting your Class B license still suggests that even automatic slack adjusters must get checked/inspected as part of the pre-drive checklist. Sounds a little ridiculous to me, and it seems that they've grossly over-simplified the process of "checking" them, but here's the exact wording from the handbook:

"5.3.2 – During Step 5 Walk-around Inspection Check Slack Adjusters on S-cam Brakes. Park on level ground and chock the wheels to prevent the
vehicle from moving. Release the parking brakes so you can move the slack adjusters. Use gloves and pull hard on each slack adjuster that you can reach. If a slack adjuster moves more than about one inch where the push rod attaches to it, it probably needs adjustment. Adjust it or have it adjusted. Vehicles with too much brake slack can be very hard to stop.
Out-of-adjustment brakes are the most common problem found in roadside inspections. Be safe. Check the slack adjusters. All vehicles built since 1994 have automatic slack adjustors. Even though automatic slack adjustors
adjust themselves during full brake applications, they must be checked.

Automatic adjusters should not have to be manually adjusted except when performing maintenance on the brakes and during installation of the slack
adjusters. In a vehicle equipped with automatic adjusters, when the pushrod stroke exceeds the legal brake adjustment limit, it is an indication that a
mechanical problem exists in the adjuster itself, a problem with the related foundation brake components, or that the adjuster was improperly installed."

Note the first hilighted section above. Perhaps since NONE of the slack adjusters on the coach are "easy to reach," the driving test administrator won't expect me to have to do that, and I simply need to be aware that they exist and need to be maintained.

So...sorry to all for perhaps "over-thinking" this. I just like to be sure I've got all my ducks in order before I head out into the unknown! And in any event, I really appreciate this community and all your insights, so thanks again! :-)
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Old 07-19-2021, 06:14 PM   #13
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When I got my non-commercial class B in Maryland the instructor wanted me to recite what I needed to check in the pre-trip check. So he didn’t expect me to feel all 8 tires for bulges and check all of the tread but I had to explain what I would do. Same for horn, wipers, turn signals, brake lights, mirrors, lug nuts, etc.

I did have to demonstrate the air system / brake test as DSD posted (trigger the low pressure alarm, regulator pop off, tug test etc). I did need my own chocks for some part of this test.

Once we were on the road and on the fixed 15-20mile course and could tell I was familiar with driving such a vehicle, he was more interested in the RV than the rest of the course. The only exception being the point he had me pull over and explain where I would put out my triangles for that particular situation we were at. I had to show him I had 3 triangles as part of the prep, but didn’t have to deploy them just say where I would.

Good luck on the test.

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Old 07-19-2021, 07:00 PM   #14
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I learn more now because I can no longer drive, figure that.
This thread will be posted for your information in the BIG STICKY near the top for anyone that's going to need to take a test on their diesel coach.
THANKS for all your help everyone as usual, people in the know.
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