Battery Isolator Relay not working/MAire

[tahoeacr]

2020 Mountain Aire
When I drive, Coach batteries don't charge. When on Shore power, Chassis batteries don't charge. Silverleaf shows they are bridged.
Replaced BIR with Intellitec 200 Amp Big Boy.
Replaced fuse F12(it was blown) on Coach management module TM102
The BIR is wired in exactly like the stock one.
White wire from TM102 goes to "I" terminal on the front of BIR
Orange, White/Green tracer, Black all go to back "S" terminal

I did not bench test the new BIR before install(shame on me).
Can I just take a 12 volt battery and run a jumper to the "I" terminal to close the relay and check it?
The Orange and black wire go thru the back wall. Where do they go? Would like to check continuity. This Coach has had some serious wire chafing issues.

When bridged, does the TM102 continually supply 12 volts to the BIR to keep it closed?

Thanks

[Bobby Dowdle]

Voltage has to be above 13 for a minute to bridge together. Can you please post pictures of what solenoid you had originally and what you installed. Also, the pictures of the solenoid wired up before you swapped it out and the picture of it installed currently. You didn't explain what the new solenoid is doing and how you think it is or isn't working. You said in the beginning you swapped it out because it wasn't charging. What were the voltages when you saw the lightning bolt? How old are the batteries in the coach as well? What is the voltage on the silverleaf panel currently? Can you post a picture of that as well?

[twinboat]

One of the small wires on the solenoid is ground and the other is positive.

Take them off and send 12 volt power to the terminals to test solenoid.

[flyboy013]

Also, check the voltage on those two wires when Silverleaf is showing the batteries as bridged. You should have 12V. Between these two tests you should be able to verify if the charge bridge is working correctly and if the bridging signal from the TM102 is making it to the solenoid.

[tahoeacr]

Originally Posted by flyboy013

Also, check the voltage on those two wires when Silverleaf is showing the batteries as bridged. You should have 12V. Between these two tests you should be able to verify if the charge bridge is working correctly and if the bridging signal from the TM102 is making it to the solenoid.

I checked voltage on both sides and got nothing. I used the ground on the TM102 and then positive lead test on each side .
Silverleaf constantly showing bridged.

[tahoeacr]

original

[tahoeacr]

replacement

[tahoeacr]

Originally Posted by Bobby Dowdle

Voltage has to be above 13 for a minute to bridge together. Can you please post pictures of what solenoid you had originally and what you installed. Also, the pictures of the solenoid wired up before you swapped it out and the picture of it installed currently. You didn't explain what the new solenoid is doing and how you think it is or isn't working. You said in the beginning you swapped it out because it wasn't charging. What were the voltages when you saw the lightning bolt? How old are the batteries in the coach as well? What is the voltage on the silverleaf panel currently? Can you post a picture of that as well?

I replaced the solenoid on someone else's advice. I don't know if the solenoid is or isn't working. That's why I asked if the TM 102 continually supplies 12 volt or just sends a pulse. Batteries are all over 13volts to begin with. I've had a battery charger on the chassis batteries. The other day where I have the coach stored they pull my charger off to charge another dead Newmar. They didn't hook it back up when they were done. Yesterday when I went there the coach batteries were 13.6 and chassis batteries had dropped to 11.7 volts(AGS doesn't work either).
Sorry, but I don't recall the lightning bolt. If I go down there today and look at the voltages, they will be 13.6 most likely. If I unplug the charger, leaving the coach plugged in to shore power, by Monday the chassis batteries will probably be in the 6's. Coach batteries will stay up. Silverleaf will show bridged.

Coach batteries are original. In the Fall, one of the coach batteries was a little weak when I had them load tested. I took it and another one out. The other one has been doing fine in my garage. I will replace it next week before I take it back on the road.
Chassis batteries. One is new in Sept. The other is original.

[tahoeacr]

I called down and had them send me a picture of the Silverleaf. It says it's invalid file when I try to load it. So here is what there at right now. AT 315pm yesterday chassis was at 11.7. I put it on a 40 amp charger.
House batteries showing 13.6v
Chassis showing 13.8v. currently not bridged

[flyboy013]

Originally Posted by tahoeacr

I checked voltage on both sides and got nothing. I used the ground on the TM102 and then positive lead test on each side .
Silverleaf constantly showing bridged.

What do you mean by both sides? The two large wires/nuts? One of the large wires is connected directly to the house batteries and the other is connected directly to the chassis batteries. There should be voltage on both of these. If you're not reading anything, you most likely did not have a good ground to test with.


You need to test the voltage on the two smaller wires. This is how the solenoid gets activated. You provide 12V / ground on these wires and the solenoid will activate. When Silverleaf says its being bridge there should be 12V when putting the multimeter probes on these small wires/nuts.

I replaced the solenoid on someone else's advice. I don't know if the solenoid is or isn't working. That's why I asked if the TM 102 continually supplies 12 volt or just sends a pulse.

Yes, 12V is constantly supplied when Silverleaf is bridging the house and chassis batteries. Curious why you went with the Big Boy solenoid. Keep in mind that these solenoids generate a voltage spike on the 12V activation terminal when the solenoid is disengaged. These solenoids require a flyback diode so that the voltage spike doesn't make it back to the TM102. This been well document to cause the Silverleaf modules to become corrupted. I'm not sure if the replacement solenoid has a flyback diode. You need to make sure it does and add one if there isn't one built in.

Batteries are all over 13volts to begin with. I've had a battery charger on the chassis batteries.

It makes complete sense that there is 13+ volts when the chassis batteries has a charger connected to it. This doesn't prove or disprove anything with respect to the solenoid.

Sorry, but I don't recall the lightning bolt.

On my coach (2018 MADP) the Silverleaf display shows a lightning bolt to indicated that the batteries are bridged. I've been informed that on newer coaches the word "bridge" is now display in lieu of the lightning bolt.

[twinboat]

Each of the 2 large cables on the solenoid go to either the coach or chassis battery.

You should see each battery's voltage at each large solenoid terminal measuring to a ground point.
If you don't get voltage at both at the 2 large terminals, you left a cable off that battery .

Here is a basic flow chart, just pay attention to the center solenoid.

[tahoeacr]

Originally Posted by flyboy013

What do you mean by both sides? The two large wires/nuts? One of the large wires is connected directly to the house batteries and the other is connected directly to the chassis batteries. There should be voltage on both of these. If you're not reading anything, you most likely did not have a good ground to test with.

Sorry I wasn't clear. The small 3/8 nuts have no voltage when the Silverleaf says the batteries are bridged. The big posts show the respective battery bank voltage.

You need to test the voltage on the two smaller wires. This is how the solenoid gets activated. You provide 12V / ground on these wires and the solenoid will activate. When Silverleaf says its being bridge there should be 12V when putting the multimeter probes on these small wires/nuts.



No voltage when bridged so it sounds like the TM102 is fried.


Yes, 12V is constantly supplied when Silverleaf is bridging the house and chassis batteries. Curious why you went with the Big Boy solenoid. Keep in mind that these solenoids generate a voltage spike on the 12V activation terminal when the solenoid is disengaged. These solenoids require a flyback diode so that the voltage spike doesn't make it back to the TM102. This been well document to cause the Silverleaf modules to become corrupted. I'm not sure if the replacement solenoid has a flyback diode. You need to make sure it does and add one if there isn't one built in.

I will call Intellitec in the morning and see if there is a flyback diode built in.
The Big Boy was recommended to me is why I went with it. Didn't feel like replacing stuff that burns out in less than two years with the same thing that I'll be replacing in another two years. Only had a one year warranty on the coach. Have already had the dash screens go out $2,500, the dryer bearings fail $2,000, electronic door lock quit working, radiator expansion tank leaks, back up alarm bracket broke and fell off, body panels flapping in the breeze, ceiling tiles falling on my head while driving, pocket door falling off tracks while driving, the list goes on and on.

It makes complete sense that there is 13+ volts when the chassis batteries has a charger connected to it. This doesn't prove or disprove anything with respect to the solenoid.

The charger is on to keep chassis batteries from dying. If I take it off tomorrow, the chassis batteries will be dead by Monday even though the Coach is plugged in to shore power.

On my coach (2018 MADP) the Silverleaf display shows a lightning bolt to indicated that the batteries are bridged. I've been informed that on newer coaches the word "bridge" is now display in lieu of the lightning bolt.

Yes, bridged is what I get. Answered your questions within your quote. Didn't want you to miss that.

[flyboy013]

Having no voltage on the small terminals when Silverleaf indicates bridging doesn’t necessary mean the TM102 is bad.

As I recall, the TM102 puts out a signal to a relay on a KIB relay board. It’s the activation of that relay that sends the 12V to the solenoid to activate it.

So the problem could be the TM102, the wire from the TM102 to the KIB relay board, the KIB relay board, or the wire from the relay board to the solenoid.

All of this is located on the wall behind the power cord reel and should be traceable other than the fact that the reel is in the way.

[flyboy013]

The attached drawing may help with your troubleshooting.

TM102-centric layout.pdf