Community Forums

Sidewinder4 · 02-20-2015, 06:18 AM

Several recommendations from OPs will recommend to find the Bidirectional Isolator Relay Delay (B.I.R.D.) system when in most cases after 2010 you would look for a Battery Isolation Monitor (B.I.M) instead. I believe from reading OP’s that “BIRD” is used like “Xerox” that is to say: “to make a copy of a document” even though there are many vendors that make copiers. I was told to find my BIRD system for an issue, looked many hours only to find I had a BIM instead.
I only bring this up because as new RV'ers, I love this sight for information and it has saved me money and headaches. Below is a paste from wiring in 007's great libriary. I apologize now if I misunderstand what I'm reading.

Charging Systems from 007’s library

All late model Essex and King Aire’s use Silverleaf systems with the White Rodgers Solenoid. In 2014, the Mountain Aire will also be using Silverleaf. It is a computerized system that controls all aspects of charging.
All late model Mountain Aire and Dutch Star Diesel Pushers use the Battery Isolation Manager (BIM). This is an all in one system that is made by Precision Circuits. Class A models before 2010 use the Bidirectional Isolator Relay Delay (BIRD) with a solenoid. The Bay Star Sport has a manual switch to disconnect power, which is located in the overhead above the entry door. This is similar to the ones in the fifth-wheels. All others have a single lighted switch that is in the front overhead to turn off house voltage.

Smosher · 02-20-2015, 07:08 AM

I have a new 2015 London Aire do you know which one that they used. I had a bird system on my old coach
Steve

Sidewinder4 · 02-20-2015, 07:34 AM

Silverleaf systems with the White Rodgers Solenoid.

Sidewinder4 · 02-20-2015, 07:37 AM

harleyman134 · 02-20-2015, 08:06 AM

Sidewinder4, I also find this forum to be a very valuable tool for the DYI'ers, when it comes to the B.I.R.D system there is some misinformation on this site. Reading the post of this forum I got the impression that a B.I.R.D. would charge the chassis batteries AFTER the house batteries were charged. I recently had a problem with my B.I.R.D. and after I researched it I have a pretty good understanding of how it work. There is an isolator switch between the house and chassis batteries that hook the two banks of batteries in a parallel configuration when the isolator is closed. The B.I.R.D will monitor the voltage of the house batteries when hooked up to shore power and if it sees a voltage of 13 volts or more (indicating the batteries are being charged) it will close the isolator and charge both banks of batteries at the same time no matter what state of charge either bank of batteries is in. If the voltage drops below 12.8 volts the B.I.R.D. will open the isolator, breaking the parallel connection between the battery bank to prevent both banks of batteries from being discharged. Whenever the ignition is on, the B.I.R.D will no longer monitor the voltage of the house batteries but will monitor the voltage of the chassis batteries and using the same logic as stated above it will open and close the isolator. I don't know if the B.I.R.D and B.I.M. use the same logic scenario, but wanted to clear up some confusion regarding how a B.I.R.D. operates.

"007" · 02-22-2015, 01:24 PM

Well I declare I have been in the old school for so long my confusion has probably confused some people I realize now.
I want to thank you both Terry and Sonny for pointing this difference for me when I picked up the new 12v battery and Bird--B.I.M. LINK never realized who had what between these two, your explanations have help this old timer.
So just to follow up since 2009 VENTANA, MADP, DSDP, LADP & KA with OR with out Silverleaf will have the Precision B.I.M. unit or control.
You mentioned the Bay Star, Canyon Star, is it a B.I.M. with a switch to cut off batteries without a solenoid ?
I will have to place this info in the QT's # 3 to remind myself and others if I miss lead them.
I almost missed your thread anytime someone has this type of correction please bring to my attention with a PM, so it can be resolved ASAP.
I have to rely on DP owners as yourselves because I have never been in a Newmar DP since a friends 2002 MADP, I have only tried to keep things together with what people have posted and the new COM_NET LINKS.
Thanks again for your help much appreciated.

GaryKD · 02-22-2015, 02:53 PM

BIRD or BIM they both do the same thing. They just do it a bit differently from each other. Combine that with older level of the BIRD "thinking" differently than the latest level of the BIRD. If one want to get really fuzzy, have the older BIRD brain (no pun intended) replaced with the newest level.

What does all this mean? Absolutely nothing.

If the batteries (coach and/or chassis) are not being charged properly, post in this forum and members will take each coach as needed. Year, model and any other information will be greatly appreciated.

harleyman134 · 02-22-2015, 03:36 PM

007. I just appreciate all the work you and Gary do to make this an excellent resource for us less experienced rv'rs. I will admit I didn't know anything about a B.I.R.D when I started diagnosing my problem and was able to use some of the links you posted about a B.I.R.D to diagnose and fix my problem and it didn't cost me anything to fix, yeah. There is a current thread about battery charge issues and Gary posted a link to a B.I.M. pdf file that I looked at. The B.I.R.D and B.I.M. both do about the same thing but use a different logic to do their work. I hope my post on this thread wasn't viewed as any more than an attempt on my behalf to clarify how I think a B.I.R.D goes about doing it's job. Thanks again for your efforts to help this forum be one of the best forums on the internet.

GaryKD · 02-22-2015, 04:42 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but when I read about how the BIRD and BIM work, my head hurts. I'm an ME not an EE. Guess I made an excellent career choice.

wa8yxm · 02-22-2015, 05:10 PM

I will try to explain how they work in different ways.

Take two water tanks,, open top, float valve in both stops filling when it's full up.

Put them side by side

JUST below the "it is full" line (The point where the float valve shuts it off) Connect the two tanks with a 4" diamater crossover pipe.

Now,, as the tank labeled "Chassis" fills up, when the depth of water (And thus the pressure on the bottom of the tank) gets high enough the other tank starts filling.

Likewise when the "House" tank is full enough, the "Chassis" tank starts filling.

Pressure on bottom of tank = Voltage
Water flow = Current.
Water in tank = Amp Hours in battery.

This is greatly simplified but this system insures that drawing too much water out of either tank, leaves the other still able to do it's thing.

Oh. if you want a MONO-Directional system (old fashion straight isolator)

Put a check valve in that 4" crossover line so water can only flow from CHASSIS to Hose tank.

"007" · 02-22-2015, 05:15 PM

Thanks Sonny for your simplified operation of the Bird your better with words than I am at times, I tend to use more links than explanations in words will have to watch that since Terry explained the difference between the two and what coach's since 2009 may have the B.I.M.
I have not really looked onto the operation between the two but if they serve the same purpose and keep batteries charged that's fine with me and members that need to know.
Thanks again for every ones help trying to explain these systems so a layman can understand them.