RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Newmar Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-23-2016, 10:17 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
harleyjt's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Byhalia, MS
Posts: 2,884
Boost Relay Stuck

I noticed recently that it appears my boost relay that is controlled by a dash switch seems to be stuck in the closed position allowing the house batteries to always be hooked up to the chassis. I can disconnect my chassis battery completely and I still have full chassis power just as though the chassis battery was still hooked up. I'm trying to determine which relay I need. I'm attaching a picture of my electrical control box under the hood. I think the large relay on the left is the BIRD relay. It seems to be the relay that disconnects the house batteries when using the storage switch. I am guessing the boost relay is the smaller relay next to it. I can't see much of it for all the wiring and the jumper bar. I do know it is very hot to the touch all the time. This leads me to think it is the boost relay and for some reason is shorted. Am I thinking correctly here? Thanks for your ideas.
jt
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Relays.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	60.6 KB
ID:	142435  
__________________

__________________
2005 Newmar Kountry Star Gas 3742
Workhorse W24, 8.1L/Allison 5-spd
JT, Em & the boys, Kong & Baxter (rescued grey tabbies)
harleyjt is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-24-2016, 05:23 AM   #2
Senior Member


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 4,624
harleyjt-

In the following I'll use relay where a more correct term would be "solenoid."

By the picture, the "boost" or AUX START relay is the black plastic box under the bus connections to the right, to which your "??Boost Relay??" arrow points.

The BIRD is the black box to the far left.

The disconnect relay, or "salesman switch" relay, is the one you identified as "BIRD relay." As you indicate, that relay cuts off 12V power to the coach. It should not be involved in the symptom you describe.

You can see if the AUX START relay is working by unplugging from shore power, making sure the generator is off, and then pressing and releasing the AUX START switch in the dash. The relay should click. This is not the only test to perform should you suspect a problem with the relay, but we can get to those if needed; read on.

I too found charging voltages on the chassis bus with the disconnect switch in the off position and was puzzled, until I figured out:

1) the charging logic will kick in whenever there's a charging source, and
2) the chassis and house battery buses (to which the AUX START relay is connected) are "downstream" of the disconnect switches

It happens I was checking while the coach was plugged into shore power. The converter was charging the house batteries, the chassis batteries were "low" (actually 0 volts, as the disconnect was set to "off"), and the BIRD happily activated the AUX START relay to "charge" the chassis batteries, thereby making the chassis battery bus live.

So, does the symptom occur when the coach is unplugged from shore power?
__________________

__________________
Mark
2008 Holiday Rambler Admiral 30PDD (Ford F-53 chassis)
2009 Honda Fit Sport
l1v3fr33ord1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 05:26 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Port Dover, Ontario
Posts: 382
The BIRD relay is the black box to the left.
Bi Directional Isolator Relay Delay.

Picks up the big solenoid.
These can overheat and seize up in the open or closed position.
Remove to coil wire from the big solenoid and see if it drops out.

The other relay is probably the coach disconnect relay.

I was overheating these contactors out every two years until I installed a small bulb in series. The bulb has low resistance when cold to slam the contacts closed but shares the voltage when warm. I read that tip on this forum, what a simple great idea.
__________________
2009 Monaco Monarch 33SFS...Jeep TJ
Wintering in Apache Junction. Summer in Ontario.
harris155 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 05:35 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
bruceisla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Foley AL
Posts: 7,124
The BIRD is a controller and is on the left. The actual Boost Solenoid is the same as the BIRD Solenoid ... it is dual purpose. The Solenoid is picked by either the BIRD or the Boost Switch on the dash. If the Solenoid is actually picked you should be able to find the source by disconnecting the Pick wire (usually purple). It's also possible the contacts are welded inside the Solenoid.
__________________
2005 Newmar Essex 4502, 2013 Caddy SRX
1997 HR Endeavor 37, CAT, 1996 Geo Tracker
bruceisla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 05:47 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 21,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyjt View Post
I noticed recently that it appears my boost relay that is controlled by a dash switch seems to be stuck in the closed position allowing the house batteries to always be hooked up to the chassis. I can disconnect my chassis battery completely and I still have full chassis power just as though the chassis battery was still hooked up. I'm trying to determine which relay I need. I'm attaching a picture of my electrical control box under the hood. I think the large relay on the left is the BIRD relay. It seems to be the relay that disconnects the house batteries when using the storage switch. I am guessing the boost relay is the smaller relay next to it. I can't see much of it for all the wiring and the jumper bar. I do know it is very hot to the touch all the time. This leads me to think it is the boost relay and for some reason is shorted. Am I thinking correctly here? Thanks for your ideas.
jt
Did you do this test with the MH plugged in to shore power ?

The relay ( solenoid ), being by-directional controlled, could be activated by the house battery charging source.

If it was on shore power, pull the plug, run a few things to knock off the surface charge and try your test again.
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 07:14 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
computerguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 2,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by harris155 View Post
The BIRD relay is the black box to the left.
Bi Directional Isolator Relay Delay.

Picks up the big solenoid.
These can overheat and seize up in the open or closed position.
Remove to coil wire from the big solenoid and see if it drops out.

The other relay is probably the coach disconnect relay.

I was overheating these contactors out every two years until I installed a small bulb in series. The bulb has low resistance when cold to slam the contacts closed but shares the voltage when warm. I read that tip on this forum, what a simple great idea.
These seem to be problematic across many models and manufacturers.
Is there a thread or wiring diagram of what you did?
__________________
I don't make it much on here anymore so will not see your reply to my comment. Drop me a direct message and when I come back on I will see it.
Cheers!
computerguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 08:13 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
bruceisla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Foley AL
Posts: 7,124
Out of curiosity, if an RV is on Shore Power, why would you use the Disconnect Switches ?
__________________
2005 Newmar Essex 4502, 2013 Caddy SRX
1997 HR Endeavor 37, CAT, 1996 Geo Tracker
bruceisla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 10:48 AM   #8
Community Moderator
 
"007"'s Avatar


 
Nor'easters Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 30,196
This link found in QT's # 3 will show solenoids operation.
__________________
98KSCA, 99MACA, 03 KSCA-3740- 8.1 Chev-- ALLISON Trans
VISIT the NEWMAR QUICK TIPS & EASYMODS 1 & 2
QUICK TIPS # 3
RV SYSTEMS & APPLIANCES & RECALLS --- TECH INFORMATION
"007" is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 01:21 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
harleyjt's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Byhalia, MS
Posts: 2,884
007 - Thanks for the link, thats good info.

Others - Yes, I disconnected shore power, and had the chassis battery disconnected. Generator not running. House batteries and chassis batteries are in good shape and fully charged. I still had voltage to chassis with the chassis battery disconnected. When I operated the salesman switch the relay opened and all went dead. I think I mislabeled the large relay - according to l1v3fr33ord1 it is the disconnect relay. I knew the BIRD controller was the unit on the left. Again, according to l1v3fr33ord1 the smaller relay on the right is the aux start relay that appears to be stuck as it does not click and is always closed. So it would appear my aux start relay is stuck. I do remember I had to use it some time ago when the chassis battery was dead, and it didn't want to engage. After several attempts with the battery boost switch, it finally engaged and the engine started. I don't think it ever disengaged. As I said, the relay is hot to the touch all the time. I'm thinking I need a new "boost relay" or "aux start" relay, whichever the proper terminology is. Based on the responses, I think I have it pretty well diagnosed. Thanks for all the responses.
jt
__________________
2005 Newmar Kountry Star Gas 3742
Workhorse W24, 8.1L/Allison 5-spd
JT, Em & the boys, Kong & Baxter (rescued grey tabbies)
harleyjt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 01:29 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
harleyjt's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Byhalia, MS
Posts: 2,884
007 - Thanks for the link, thats good info.

Others - Yes, I disconnected shore power, and had the chassis battery disconnected. Generator not running. House batteries and chassis batteries are in good shape and fully charged. I still had voltage to chassis with the chassis battery disconnected. When I operated the salesman switch the relay opened and all went dead. I think I mislabeled the large relay - according to l1v3fr33ord1 it is the disconnect relay or solenoid. I knew the BIRD controller was the unit on the left. Again, according to l1v3fr33ord1 the smaller relay on the right is the aux start relay that appears to be stuck as it does not click and is always closed. So it would appear my aux start relay is stuck. I do remember I had to use it some time ago when the chassis battery was dead, and it didn't want to engage. After several attempts with the battery boost switch, it finally engaged and the engine started. I don't think it ever disengaged. As I said, the relay is hot to the touch all the time. I'm thinking I need a new "boost relay" or "aux start" relay, whichever the proper terminology is. Based on the responses, I think I have it pretty well diagnosed. Thanks for all the responses.
jt
__________________
2005 Newmar Kountry Star Gas 3742
Workhorse W24, 8.1L/Allison 5-spd
JT, Em & the boys, Kong & Baxter (rescued grey tabbies)
harleyjt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 01:37 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
harleyjt's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Byhalia, MS
Posts: 2,884
I guess this would be the properly labeled diagram.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Relay2.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	65.0 KB
ID:	142518  
__________________
2005 Newmar Kountry Star Gas 3742
Workhorse W24, 8.1L/Allison 5-spd
JT, Em & the boys, Kong & Baxter (rescued grey tabbies)
harleyjt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 06:37 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
harleyjt's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Byhalia, MS
Posts: 2,884
Took the relay off and it wasn't stuck. Put it back on and hit the switch once and it stuck on. After a few minutes I realized it had opened. Now working properly for a while and then stuck again. Several minutes later it opened up again. Working properly again. Go figure. It has to be sticking internally. Has anyone else had one act this way?
__________________
2005 Newmar Kountry Star Gas 3742
Workhorse W24, 8.1L/Allison 5-spd
JT, Em & the boys, Kong & Baxter (rescued grey tabbies)
harleyjt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 10:11 PM   #13
Community Moderator
 
"007"'s Avatar


 
Nor'easters Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 30,196
Can you check for iron file-lings near magnets maybe jamming the plunger.
__________________
98KSCA, 99MACA, 03 KSCA-3740- 8.1 Chev-- ALLISON Trans
VISIT the NEWMAR QUICK TIPS & EASYMODS 1 & 2
QUICK TIPS # 3
RV SYSTEMS & APPLIANCES & RECALLS --- TECH INFORMATION
"007" is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 10:26 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
harleyjt's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Byhalia, MS
Posts: 2,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by "007" View Post
Can you check for iron file-lings near magnets maybe jamming the plunger.
Good idea. That would make a lot of sense. Not sure I want to remove it again and try taking it apart. I looked at it closely when I had it out and it appears it really isn't made for disassembly. The metal base is a crimped on affair. Not sure I would be able to get it back together and functional. I may try it anyway. If I do, I'll post results. I may just replace it next spring and be done with it.
jt
__________________

__________________
2005 Newmar Kountry Star Gas 3742
Workhorse W24, 8.1L/Allison 5-spd
JT, Em & the boys, Kong & Baxter (rescued grey tabbies)
harleyjt is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Video Switchbox / Converter Box Hookup - To boost or not to boost? Planocat Newmar Owner's Forum 3 05-19-2015 05:26 PM
Turbo Boost What is the Maximum Boost that a 5.9, 275HP shogun1940 Cummins Engines 10 11-30-2014 07:47 PM
Boost/no boost JDD Cummins Engines 16 11-09-2014 08:01 AM
Battery Boost Relay Joe & Bonnie Monaco Owner's Forum 8 10-12-2010 07:49 PM
Battery Boost relay sticking on Joe & Bonnie Monaco Owner's Forum 3 04-26-2010 09:16 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×