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Old 10-01-2007, 05:49 PM   #1
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Hi All,
I have read allot of good material on this site and in this forum, so I thought I would say hello and ask for opinions.
We have never owned a motor home before but would like to try full timing for a while, maybe longer. Basically we have decided to sell our bricks and sticks home to downsize to a condo or such, as I believe I have succumbed to the peter principle of housing. With the decision to sell our home in hand we then thought a full time tour in a motor home would be a welcome change. We are neither old enough nor wealthy enough to retire yet, but I can work remotely via the Internet and make a reasonable living to support us while RV'ng. This leads to the first requirement which is a desk/work area in our future RV. The second major requirement is a king size bed, and a head/shower that can be used by a 6'3" big guy. Next we would like tile floor since we will traveling with cats, and I really do like the idea of hydro-hot as I do not like the vents in the middle of the floor.
My other requirement is on the safety first front, as I feel we need at least a 3500# CCC and whatever we buy must feel stable on the road. I have seen motor homes that look like they are listing (is that a RV word, or boat only) and get blown around by the wake of every passing truck. I need a coach that I can feel safe and comfortable in. When at the Hersey show a few weeks ago I looked at the CCC label for every coach that looked interesting, and was amazed to find some as low as 1200#
So that is the background. I like the newmar products as the owners seem to all think highly of them, and I doubt I will get much argument around here. I also think the Travel Supreme looks like a nice product, Since there is no Travel Supreme board I will ask for thoughts about the two brands. I am thinking 200 - 300K is the price range I want to be in, and as always the lower the better.

If buying new on the Newmar Front a DSDP 4317 looks like what we would like consider. I saw the post about options for this specific model and feel that would be the high end of where I would like to be cost wise. The MADP looks beautiful, but if I want to semi retire I need to be conservative on budget and I don't think I could justify the increased cost. So that is the first question I have, is there any functional difference between a MADP and a DSDP that would make it important for a full timer to consider the upgrade. I understand the materials and finish are better, but it the DSDP is more than adequate on this front, are there any real mechanical differences that I should be aware of.
Second question area is on the used front where a 05/06 MADB or a 04/05 ESDP seems to be in the $250k asking range. I have a hard time seeing these as a wise buy when they are so close in price to the new DSDP. The new unit will have comfort drive, warranty, and be equipped my way, so with that in mind does the used make sense. If you have bought a used coach in this range I would be curious to correspond about your thoughts on the matter.

On the travel Supreme front the story is a bit different as the line does not seem to have changed much over the years. While I do not want to spend Select kind of money new, and the DSDP seems nicer than a Envoy new, a used select seems that it may be a better buy than a used ESDP or MADP. I think this is because the coach has been positioned the same for a while while Newmar moved their coaches into a much more expensive price range. Anyone have any experience with both to offer comparisons.

Additionally are their other products I should look closer at?

Another question I have is about the Desk/work area in a Select, which I really like. I have yet to see this desk office wall in a newmar layout in place of the curbside sofa like TS does it. I assume I can take a used Newmar to a furniture shop and get the modification made if I really want it, are there any caveats to such thinking I should be aware of. Has anyone seen the newmar factory put a desk area in like TS does, can I ask them for that option if I buy new.
Additionally if a coach does not have tile floors throughout, can this be changed when it is time to replace carpets, or is it prohibitively expensive (Keeping in mind it is a $5K option on a new DSDP, so 5k is not prohibitive).

Finally a different type of question, and that is trailer vs toad. I can easily see that a toad is much easier, but we have a 07 Lexus IS250 AWD that can not be towed 4 down. We like the car and would like to take it, additionally I would see the extra storage of a trailer as very useful. The question is if I am going to restrict myself out of many places due to size if I take a trailer or is it a reasonable thing to do.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Bruce
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:49 PM   #2
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Hi All,
I have read allot of good material on this site and in this forum, so I thought I would say hello and ask for opinions.
We have never owned a motor home before but would like to try full timing for a while, maybe longer. Basically we have decided to sell our bricks and sticks home to downsize to a condo or such, as I believe I have succumbed to the peter principle of housing. With the decision to sell our home in hand we then thought a full time tour in a motor home would be a welcome change. We are neither old enough nor wealthy enough to retire yet, but I can work remotely via the Internet and make a reasonable living to support us while RV'ng. This leads to the first requirement which is a desk/work area in our future RV. The second major requirement is a king size bed, and a head/shower that can be used by a 6'3" big guy. Next we would like tile floor since we will traveling with cats, and I really do like the idea of hydro-hot as I do not like the vents in the middle of the floor.
My other requirement is on the safety first front, as I feel we need at least a 3500# CCC and whatever we buy must feel stable on the road. I have seen motor homes that look like they are listing (is that a RV word, or boat only) and get blown around by the wake of every passing truck. I need a coach that I can feel safe and comfortable in. When at the Hersey show a few weeks ago I looked at the CCC label for every coach that looked interesting, and was amazed to find some as low as 1200#
So that is the background. I like the newmar products as the owners seem to all think highly of them, and I doubt I will get much argument around here. I also think the Travel Supreme looks like a nice product, Since there is no Travel Supreme board I will ask for thoughts about the two brands. I am thinking 200 - 300K is the price range I want to be in, and as always the lower the better.

If buying new on the Newmar Front a DSDP 4317 looks like what we would like consider. I saw the post about options for this specific model and feel that would be the high end of where I would like to be cost wise. The MADP looks beautiful, but if I want to semi retire I need to be conservative on budget and I don't think I could justify the increased cost. So that is the first question I have, is there any functional difference between a MADP and a DSDP that would make it important for a full timer to consider the upgrade. I understand the materials and finish are better, but it the DSDP is more than adequate on this front, are there any real mechanical differences that I should be aware of.
Second question area is on the used front where a 05/06 MADB or a 04/05 ESDP seems to be in the $250k asking range. I have a hard time seeing these as a wise buy when they are so close in price to the new DSDP. The new unit will have comfort drive, warranty, and be equipped my way, so with that in mind does the used make sense. If you have bought a used coach in this range I would be curious to correspond about your thoughts on the matter.

On the travel Supreme front the story is a bit different as the line does not seem to have changed much over the years. While I do not want to spend Select kind of money new, and the DSDP seems nicer than a Envoy new, a used select seems that it may be a better buy than a used ESDP or MADP. I think this is because the coach has been positioned the same for a while while Newmar moved their coaches into a much more expensive price range. Anyone have any experience with both to offer comparisons.

Additionally are their other products I should look closer at?

Another question I have is about the Desk/work area in a Select, which I really like. I have yet to see this desk office wall in a newmar layout in place of the curbside sofa like TS does it. I assume I can take a used Newmar to a furniture shop and get the modification made if I really want it, are there any caveats to such thinking I should be aware of. Has anyone seen the newmar factory put a desk area in like TS does, can I ask them for that option if I buy new.
Additionally if a coach does not have tile floors throughout, can this be changed when it is time to replace carpets, or is it prohibitively expensive (Keeping in mind it is a $5K option on a new DSDP, so 5k is not prohibitive).

Finally a different type of question, and that is trailer vs toad. I can easily see that a toad is much easier, but we have a 07 Lexus IS250 AWD that can not be towed 4 down. We like the car and would like to take it, additionally I would see the extra storage of a trailer as very useful. The question is if I am going to restrict myself out of many places due to size if I take a trailer or is it a reasonable thing to do.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Bruce
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:08 PM   #3
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Bruce...
First of all... you seem well informed...so you already know this is the best RV forum out there to get the type of info you are looking for! Congrats so far..on getting that right!!
I can tell you that a lot of the Newmar people seem to be on the EastCoast..and may already be curled up asleep...but I know of at least one who has mentioned taking all the manufacturer tours and ended up with Newmar. I have heard you can make some changes when you special order your Newmar (I will try to find the old posts on these 2 items) ... I can tell you that I have a Monaco and love it ...and they DID have a floor plan that had an office type setting (DignBubbs from this forum works in his on the road also)..but my understanding is that the floorplan is no longer available. I will also look to verify...BTW...any reason why you are not considering a Monaco?
Okay.. I can promise you that since you are at the right forum... you will get all sorts of input soon... and I want to officially welcome you to IRV2... and oh .. this will probably be the only serious answer you will see from me... cuz after all.. I am MonacoMama... and everyone knows .. I am crazy!@!



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Old 10-01-2007, 07:40 PM   #4
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Okay, I'll put in my $.02 worth. We love our '06 Beaver Marquis, and yes, it is higher than the price range you requested. However, we had an '01 Marquis that we bought in 2005 that was in your price range, so I would think a gently used '04 or '05 could work for you. Why? You say finish doesn't matter much, but if you are going to live in it full time, maybe it does. Ride? Two words, air bags. We previously had a 95 Safari that did get blown all over the road. Get the most diesel power you can afford, in my humble opinion. The '01 Beaver was good, but the 525 hp diesel on the '06 doesn't budge against the tractor trailers, and we happily ride with (and pass) the big dog 18 wheelers all the time. Let me add leveling system... the '01 Beaver had auto leveling jacks which were great, but the '06 has auto leveling jacks plus auto air leveling... we've yet to use the leveling jacks, we're hooked on the air leveling. With the air leveling we have been level in places we've never been level in before (we do a lot of boondocking in the middle of nowhere for Tony's motorcycle competitions).

Finally, I have to agree with Monaco Mama, why are you not considering a Monaca product? We saved $100,000 buying our '06 Marquis with 10,000 miles on it vs. buying an '06 brand new. $100,000!!!!

Good luck, hope this helps.

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Old 10-01-2007, 08:08 PM   #5
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Welcome brucedelta to the Newmar forum and irv2.
The price range puts you in the DSDP range with solid wood paneling and woods not sure if the KSDP is solid or wrap vinyl.
The kitchen table would be the item optioned out for a computer desk, table, combination in the Newmar lines.
DSDP

If you look at the options on floor plans the K124-1 thru 2 would be the option.
Comes with a cabinet for printer, comp, and pull out draw for key board with about 18" deep shelf. Four chairs two of them folding.


This is something I built but gives you an idea.
There are some Dealers listed third Topic down above that have threads that you can option and build your coach to your liking and give you the pricing when your thru.
Some people have full tile floors with heat elements under floor not sure its a option on DS. Some people do pull trailers but you can also use one of these TRAILER if your car is FWD.
Check the topics up top of forum and you can find Newmar dealers near you and also see what they have in stock new or used, sometimes you will find good used coachs with all the problems taken care of by someone else and less deprecation on used coach.
Good luck have fun and ask away when everyone wakes up more answers.
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:37 AM   #6
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Thank you all for the welcome.
I guess I do not know the difference between air leveling and hydraulic yet, so I did not yet know what I want on that front or what coach comes with what version. Another thing to learn I guess.

Moma and Bsavage - I have not ruled out Monaco, I just have trouble differentiating between Beaver, Holiday Rambler, Monaco etc. I have no Beaver dealer near here so I have not looked at them. The Monaco Camelot we saw at the show looked OK, but our experience at the dealers booth was also just OK, so we have not pursued it. The big turn off of the rear bath model Camelot we saw was the laundry equipment directly behind the toilet, who wants to lean over the toilet to do laundry.
To be fair to Monaco, it was the end of the day and we were exhausted so we just went straight to the desk and asked for a sales person to show us what they had that competed with the DSDP. They sent us wandering with a very nice older lady who was a loyal Monaco owner helping out their friends who owned the dealership, and she knew the Monaco, but not the competition. So where it was the goal to go right to the appropriate coach, we toured several and she was unable to differentiate why Monaco. On the other hand I did like their exterior colors
Bsavage - I did not say fit and finish do not matter, or I did not mean to say that. What I would say is the DSDP is very nice and perfectly serviceable, but I recognize the higher line models have better materials and detail work.
OO7 - I saw your table mod in the tips and tricks thread. I also saw the desk/table option from Newmar and would order that, but I want the permanent office wall area that I do not have to clear to eat dinner at. I will try to attache the picture from a TS to show you what I mean. I also just want the tile floor, not the radiant heat which I do not believe is available is the DSDP.

I could not post just the picture of the desk since it is ebay hosted, but here is a link to the ebay listing that has a good picture of the setup. See the fist picture after exterior shots.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-Travel-Supreme-Sele...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As for the link for the trailer, it just goes to arlington home page for me. As for the car it is AWD.

By the way Moma, DignBubbs has a Knight, but that floor plan was discontinued.
-- Bruce
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:03 AM   #7
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Bruce, welcome to iRV2.

Air leveling uses the air bags to level, and I believe the leveling range is more limited than hydraulic.

With hydraulic leveling, the air is dumped from the air bags which lowers the coach, then the hydraulic jacks raise the coach to a level position.

If Newmar does not offer a desk that suits you, you can delete the desk or sofa and have a custom desk built by Carlyle Lehman or Irv Kaufman, two custom cabinet makers very close to the factory, that many of us have used.

The biggest drawback of trailering a toad is backing the trailer and finding a place to put it when at a campground.

As you noted, towing 4 down is by far the easiest way to go.

Perhaps REMCO TOWING can help with towing your Lexus 4 down.

Most Newmar diesels will have at least 3500# CCC, so that shouldn't be a problem.

The MADP is nicer than the DSDP, but is it $150K nicer?

If I had the money, I would have bought one or an Essex, but my DSDP does everything I need it to do, and is quite suitable for fulltiming.
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:12 AM   #8
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I think you will find there are positive and negative points about every motor home. Also, because you feel good about a dealer is very important, but, as you travel you might be in need of service elsewhere, so keep dealer "network" in mind.
The reason for my reply to your query, however, is your cats. Very few travel with as many animals as I, so I will mention a few items.
1. Cats love to hide, and motorhomes have places that we never heard of, so beware that you will have to "close" certain openings:
a. When the bedroom slide is in, cats can climb under.
b. With the kitchen slide out, they can get between the refrigerator and wall.
c. Open cabinet doors often lead to open areas outside the cabinet or under the sofas.
2. Always count heads before opening or closing slides.
3. You will want to consider fabric (i.e. our cats will not scratch any leather fabric).
4. Openings behind/at the corners of sofas are great places for cats to drop down.

Enjoy,
Bob
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:20 AM   #9
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Hi,
Regarding the desk you mentioned, while at the factory in July of this year, I saw Ken Miller and his crew (Hi Line sevice) installing that type of desk after removing the J sofa directly behind the passenger seat. It was in an 07 EXDP 4508 that a fulltime couple had recently purchased and they mentioned they wanted to duplicate the arrangement they had on an 06 Essex 4503 which they traded in at North Trail RV in Ft Myers, FL.
You may want to check their web site- I think they still have the unit that was traded!

In addition, if it was offered on an Essex it may be available as a "special" on a DSDP new order. If ordering new, try to work with a dealer that has a lot of experience dealing with the factory. If not, you can call sales at Newmar and they are very helpful with "special requests". I have seen many "special items" added that I was initially told were not available!
Good Luck and Happy Hunting!
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:03 AM   #10
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Food for thought while evaluating new versus used.......

Strictly from a financial viewpoint you should understand that all coaches from all manufacturers depreciate considerably during the first few years of life. For example, a used coach that originally listed for $500K new will have a "wholesale value" after 2 years of 60% or $300K. HOWEVER, in todays market the actual value of the coach will be more in the range of 50% or $250K. This is what dealers are actually giving in "real dollar" trades and private parties generally will accept! The depreciation rate begins to drop off after the third year, so if you are the buyer of a 2 year old coach, your future depreciation "hit" will be much less severe. In this way, (especially without a trade) you can buy a very excellent used "upscale coach" for relatively short money. Older "upscale coaches" may already offer a lot of the "newer goodies" that the new coaches are now offering.

In addition, as many on this forum will attest, new coaches usually come with lists of items that need to be fixed during the first few years of ownership. If you buy from an owner who was diligent in having items repaired and corrected, you may be getting a coach that has already had the "new coach gremlins" removed!
Man, how much is that worth!
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:58 AM   #11
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Some very good comments here already...

First of all I'll say that regrettably, the build quality of ALL the manufacturers you've mentioned is currently suspect at best...

In my very own LADB I'm sitting in Nappanee for the third time this year alone, to address leaks and squeaks from nine months of ownership.

Check out our Monaco and Travle Supreme forums and you'll see much of the same things going on over there as well, with regard to "first year of ownership" items needing fixed.

I have personal knowledge gained from a good frend of mine who owns a TS Select Limited and was recently in Wakarusa having repairs done.
His complaints mirror mine, just a different brand...

Buying preowned has some very good merits, take George and Carol for instance as they bought my "old" Essex. Even though I worked out many of the issues, they're still having issues but are here as well getting them taken care of.

Good luck!
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:30 AM   #12
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Hi Bruce,

Let me add my $.10 worth. We are on our 2nd Newmar, a 2007 DSDP that we ordered optioned exactly as we wanted (except for things we forgot or didn't realize we wanted until after....). Our first Newmar was a 1992 KSDP that we bought used in 2003.

We ordered the new coach after deciding to full time and sold our house. Both coaches have quality in their appearance as not in other but rather high line coaches. The woodwork, tile and other appointments really make this look spiffy.

We ordered our new coach without sofas and had Irv Kaufman make us desks/storage in those areas. On the Yahoo newmarowners forum there is a guy, Dick Ward, that sometimes posts who has a 2006 DSDP that he ordered with a rather extensive desk unit in the curbside slide in place of a sofa. Newmar made the unit and you might see if he is willing to post a picture or two for you.

Before buying we did LOTS of research and did consider Alpine, Allegro Bus, Beaver & Travel Supreme. All are good coaches and some have features that trump others. However, we found Newmar to be very accommodating in customizing this coach the way we wanted in ways we were unable to get the others to do. Most other manufacturers are very tied to their assembly line and you will have to get custom work done after delivery.

Good luck in your quest. Keep researching and asking questions.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:34 AM   #13
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Hi Bob Gregory. There is a LADB a couple of slots down from us at Newmar. Is that you??
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:41 AM   #14
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DonnaB:
Hi Bob Gregory. There is a LADB a couple of slots down from us at Newmar. Is that you?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep....anytime the pickup with the golf cart is parked in front of it, I'm home and would love to meet ya!!
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