RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Newmar Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-22-2013, 08:33 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 33
Dead Batteries

Hi Guys. Yes, it's me again. I have a 2001 Dutch Star, new to me a year ago. I've been full timing since May 2012. This scenario has happened to me 3 times:

The dealership told me that when I am camped for a period of time (or the MH is in storage) and on shore power to shut off the master switch on the engine to prevent any phantom battery drain. I have done this religiously when camped for a month or more. 3 times, including this time, my batteries are dead. No generator boost either. Dead, dead, dead.

Having said that the radio (Sony Xplod 5Wx4), on the dash never shuts off completely. I hit the power button to turn it off and the lights are still on although nothing works. No sound, no radio, no cd's, etc. I have always just assumed it was running off the shore power but now I'm wondering because the tip off the batteries are dead is noticing the radio is not lit up. Hmmmmm.... I've been at the Miller Creek RV Park in Texas for the winter since 12/1/12. Flipped the master switch off as soon as I was done setting up. What am I doing wrong?

As an aside, the dealership where I bought the MH told me there is no inverter, just a converter. I'm a newbie and wouldn't know a converter from an inverter or a donut for that matter. None of the 110 runs unless I'm on shore power or the generator is running. So no inverter on this MH, if that matters.

I hope I've given enough information. Thanks everyone for your wonderful expertise.

Julie
__________________

Waggin Wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-22-2013, 08:39 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
BFlinn181's Avatar
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 19,924
You mention a "master switch on the engine" it's not clear if that is a chassis battery switch or just a switch at the engine, only preventing starting, not cutting off all power to running ights, dash, etc. I don't think you need to turn off the chassis switch while plugged in, you might be cutting off the Converter/charger connection to the house batteries if you have one. You need to check to see if your chassis batteries charge while plugged into shore power. A multimeter will show if your chassis batteries show more volts plugged in or not, a sign they are charging. If there is no voltage change after this test, you may wish to install a battery tender to keep batteries charged when on shore power. Battery Tender Junior - Deltran Corp 021-0123 - Battery Accessories - Camping World

Phantom voltage draws could be the radio or something else. The only sure way to insure no battery draw is to install a switch on the terminal of the batteries.
Marinco House Battery Master Switch - Marinco 701HBRV - Battery Accessories - Camping World (You can find it cheaper elsewhere, but you get the idea.)
If you have a solar charger on the roof, or install one, make sure it is NOT turned off by the battery cut off switch.

You might read this to learn more about your system: The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
__________________

__________________

Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
BFlinn181 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:12 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Romeo's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Spokane, Washington
Posts: 1,166
If your radio is the same model as mine; to turn off the display you will need to push and hold the power button until the display shuts down. Pushing it once without holding only turns off the radio not the display.
__________________
Ron... WB7DJV
2000 38' Dutch Star | 2006 Grand Cherokee | SilverLeaf VmsPc Engine Monitor | TST TPMS
FMCA, NKK
Romeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:47 AM   #4
YC1
Senior Member
 
YC1's Avatar


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,275
Well, it seems your dealership suggestion of shutting off the master switch is invalid but you can check it quickly with a voltmeter. While on shoreline or generator measure the voltage across those batteries. Then turn the switch off as suggested and wait a couple of minutes if the voltage is close to 13.5 with the switch on and drops back to 12.5 or so with the switch off then the batteries are not getting charged with the switch off. Without a diagram of your specific setup or several pictures this seems to be the scenario. In any case, turning off that switch is not isolating the battery completely. Do you have other switches in the battery compartment? Often there is a house switch, and a chassis switch.

So to recap. You need to find out if the batteries get charged on shoreline/generator with and without that switch on. If they are not charged in either case that is a different issue and can in some cases be the way the factory built things. Easy work arounds for that.
Second, you need to determine if you have a real master switch in the battery compartment. A picture of the battery compartment will really help.
__________________
Myron & Deborah
08 HR Endeavor 40 SKQ
2012 Ford Edge Limited FWD 3.5L
Aluminator tow bar, Demco base plate
YC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:11 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 1,857
Parasitic Draw

If your radio was installed properly it is never fully without power. It requires a small amount of current to retain station memory and time if it has a clock. This alone isn't enough to drain your chassis batteries but chances are there are other things still getting power regardless of the switch.

In my coach there's about a dozen wires to the chassis batteries, some of which have enough of a draw to throw a pretty good spark when disconnected. Radio, power control panel, keyless entry receiver, radio power metroplex etc. It hasn't been a problem since I replaced both chassis batteries. I also have a small solar panel that trickle charges the batteries, but I don't think it would make them last for 3 months. It's never in storage for more than a few weeks at a time.

If I was leaving it in storage for months at a time I'd do one or more of the following:

Remove the batteries, or at least disconnect them from the ground (-) connectors.

Add a small solar panel trickle charger. Preferrably one with an integrated charge controller.

Run the generator for a few hours every so often.

Keep it plugged in.
Muddypaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:24 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
dennis45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AB
Posts: 7,586
I do not turn off any master switches unless I am parked where there is no power source such as storage yard. In storage, I turn off both the chassis master and the house master. Even with both turned off, the batteries will go dead in 2-3 weeks because there is still some parasitic load. IMO, the only way to completely disconnect is to remove the ground cable from each set of batteries.

So, When parked at the CG, leave the master turned on and the converter will charge the chassis and house batteries. You need to check the water level in the batteries at least every 4-6 weeks to make sure they have not run dry.

I don't have an inverter on mine either. It went south before I bought the rig and was replaced with a converter that keeps the batteries at precisely 13.6 volts. I don't dry camp so have no need of the inverter.
__________________
2019 Unity LTV CB, pushed by a 2013 Honda CRV, BlueOx Baseplate, Aventa Bar & Patriot Brake
dennis45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:35 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
GaryKD's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 13,557
Hi Waggin Wagon,
Once you get the batteries charged, this is easy to not have it happen again. First, those who post and do not own a Newmar, are making an effort, but might not know how Newmar coaches are built and wired. Read these posts with caution.

Once the batteries are recharged:
1. Don't turn anything off, if you are connected to shore power.
2. Your coach should have a BIRD system installed. This means the coach batteries are charged first. Then the chassis batteries are charged.
3. There should be a small solar panel on the roof. The location is, most likely, toward the front of the coach on the driver's side. This is a 5 WATT battery charger connected to the chassis batteries.
4. Nothing has been turned off, on my coach (except for battery maintenance), since I purchased it new in 05. I let the systems do their job and the batteries have been fine.
5. Lastly, get the VIN # of your coach and call Newmar tech support at 800-731-8300. Ask for technical support. Ask them about your BIRD system
and the roof solar panel. It is always good to check out advice with the real
source of information.
6. If the batteries do not come back and stay charged, post here and
additional advice can be provided to easily check the batteries.
7. If the dealer you purchased the coach from is not a Newmar dealer, stay away from that dealer for service. If they are a Newmar dealer, then shame on them for giving you advice to turn off the battery switch when connected to shore power.
__________________
Gary
2005 Newmar KSDP 3910 + GMC ENVOY XUV 37K lbs Moving Down The Road
The Avatar Is Many Times Around The USA
Nobody Knows Your Coach Like Somebody Who Owns One Just Like Yours
GaryKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
dennis45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AB
Posts: 7,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryKD View Post
Hi Waggin Wagon,
Once you get the batteries charged, this is easy to not have it happen again. First, those who post and do not own a Newmar, are making an effort, but might not know how Newmar coaches are built and wired. Read these posts with caution.

Once the batteries are recharged:
1. Don't turn anything off, if you are connected to shore power.
2. Your coach should have a BIRD system installed. This means the coach batteries are charged first. Then the chassis batteries are charged.
3. There should be a small solar panel on the roof. The location is, most likely, toward the front of the coach on the driver's side. This is a 5 WATT battery charger connected to the chassis batteries.
4. Nothing has been turned off, on my coach (except for battery maintenance), since I purchased it new in 05. I let the systems do their job and the batteries have been fine.
5. Lastly, get the VIN # of your coach and call Newmar tech support at 800-731-8300. Ask for technical support. Ask them about your BIRD system
and the roof solar panel. It is always good to check out advice with the real
source of information.
6. If the batteries do not come back and stay charged, post here and
additional advice can be provided to easily check the batteries.
7. If the dealer you purchased the coach from is not a Newmar dealer, stay away from that dealer for service. If they are a Newmar dealer, then shame on them for giving you advice to turn off the battery switch when connected to shore power.
Couldn't have said it better myself. The people at Newmar are always available and very helpful.
__________________
2019 Unity LTV CB, pushed by a 2013 Honda CRV, BlueOx Baseplate, Aventa Bar & Patriot Brake
dennis45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:30 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
DutchStar38's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sarasota,FL
Posts: 454
Ditto on what Gary said. There is NO need to turn off either of the master switches when on shore power. The B.I.R.D. system will keep all batteries charged, when on shore/genny power, only if you keep the switches on.
__________________
Lynda & Ronny Sarasota, Florida
2005 DutchStar DP 3809
Sammy (Brussels Griffon\Maltese)
DutchStar38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:20 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 33
Hi Gary. Thank you for all the great information. The deep cell batteries are fine but the two coach batteries won't charge. The gentleman who attached the charger says they may be shot since this is the 3rd time this has happened. We're leaving the charger on overnight to see if it's just a slow, slow process. You mentioned there may be something else we can do. Can you please post?

Thank you so much,

J
Waggin Wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 06:06 AM   #11
Community Moderator
 
"007"'s Avatar


 
Nor'easters Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 30,118
The Sony radio needs the button held down until leds go off not just pushed,there maybe a OFF BUTTON on radio also lower left of select knob.
The chassis batteries also have the LP detector, ECM, TCM off them also.
You should have switch in display area to cut off LP detector when in storage.
Any time as Gary said and others have, when connected to shore power leave battery cut off on and
Bird System will maintain all your batteries.
If you have a diesel coach some coach's have a chassis battery switch, but your year may not, would check with Newmar repair as suggested.
__________________
98KSCA, 99MACA, 03 KSCA-3740- 8.1 Chev-- ALLISON Trans
VISIT the NEWMAR QUICK TIPS & EASYMODS 1 & 2
QUICK TIPS # 3
RV SYSTEMS & APPLIANCES & RECALLS --- TECH INFORMATION
"007" is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 10:38 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 33
Just a quick note to everyone. The batteries are charged. Yeah! Thanks to all who have given such invaluable advice. No more turning off switches unless we're going into storage, which is unlikely since I'm full timing. I'm going to call Newmar service Monday to get the lowdown on why and wherefore so there is no more confusion on my part. As for the dealer... <tsk, tsk, tsk>

Thanks again everyone, especially Gary who laid it all out so cleanly for me.

J
Waggin Wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 11:51 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
GaryKD's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 13,557
Hi Waggin Wagon,
This is in response to your post #10. My mentioning about some things you can to if the batteries do not charge was in reference to checking the batteries before one spends $s. If the batteries do not hold a charge, there is not much one can do except replace them.

In post #12 you mentioned the batteries were charged. This is a great first step. If you go from CG to CG and always have shore power, where you are now is maybe all that is needed. However, if you need to use the batteries without shore power consider completing the following steps. Doing this will ensure the batteries will hold a charge and can meet your expectations if they need to be used.
This needs to be done when you will not need any HVAC or be using the batteries for anything except lights and parasite draws. When you get close to bed time:
1. Turn off the shore power. Determine the VDC using the coach monitor panel.
2. About 1 hour later determine the VDC using the coach monitor panel.
3. Spend the night with shore power turned off.
4. In the morning, right when you get up, check the VDC using the monitor panel.
5. Turn on shore power.
The initial VDC reading (#1) should be 13.6 VDC or greater.
The reading from step #2 should be no less than 13.5 VDC.
The reading in step #4 should be 13.4 VDC or greater.
My assumption is, during the evening, there was minimal drain on the batteries. If the morning reading was below 13.0 VDC, the batteries may not be holding a charge. This will affect their performance greatly. If this is the case consider taking the batteries to a local auto parts store. For free, they will do a VDC and a load test on each battery. Make sure the batteries are fully charged before testing them. There are portable measuring tools. However, consider making the tool purchase only if you are so inclined to do these tests yourself.
__________________
Gary
2005 Newmar KSDP 3910 + GMC ENVOY XUV 37K lbs Moving Down The Road
The Avatar Is Many Times Around The USA
Nobody Knows Your Coach Like Somebody Who Owns One Just Like Yours
GaryKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 05:05 AM   #14
Community Moderator
 
"007"'s Avatar


 
Nor'easters Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 30,118
If you ever need to change out your batteries please read this thread and links within it,may save you some headaches.
__________________

__________________
98KSCA, 99MACA, 03 KSCA-3740- 8.1 Chev-- ALLISON Trans
VISIT the NEWMAR QUICK TIPS & EASYMODS 1 & 2
QUICK TIPS # 3
RV SYSTEMS & APPLIANCES & RECALLS --- TECH INFORMATION
"007" is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
batteries


« Floor tile | vent »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×