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07-10-2021, 05:14 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Winter: Fort Wilderness Campground
Posts: 658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandDescape
This morning they replaced my DEF head. Took 6 weeks from when I reported the issue to Spartan, but better than the 10-12 they said it could be.
My 43’ Ventana has the tank on the passenger side in a bay of its own with quite a bit of room around it. Smaller tank than the DS and above, over a foot above it to the compartment ceiling.
Two tech tried for 15 min every direction and couldn’t get the clearance above the tank to remove the old head. So they had to drop the tank. On the Spartan there is a rubber pad surrounding the tank to keep it from shifting around. But that also was filling the gap quite tightly so it took the two of them one from below and one from above to get the empty tank out due to how it was wedged in there.
Took about 2 hours including draining the tank, removal, head innards swap**, replace tank, refill, clear the codes. The only tools needed were a Phillips driver, socket to remove the tank strap, some hose clamps and a clamp pliers.
**The whole head wasn’t swapped out just the sensor package which includes the wire harness out the top and the sensor tube to almost the bottom of the heater cage. They changed the intake a bit on this generation of head, hopefully it lasts longer.
Safe travels out there folks.
- Richard
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So what I see is that even if you have a spare DEF Head it doesn’t appear that you are changing this on the side of the road. Still looking like you are getting towed.
__________________
Paul, Cathy and Chocolate Lab, RIO
2018 Newmar Dutch Star 4362 (Spartan)
2012 Ford F-150
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07-10-2021, 05:53 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 577
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Def head replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderRidge
So what I see is that even if you have a spare DEF Head it doesn’t appear that you are changing this on the side of the road. Still looking like you are getting towed.
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If you can get a replacement DEF head you can limp to a safe place to swap it. It isn’t something I’d want to do on the shoulder of a road but it can be done in the first box store parking lot. You may need an assistant but it can be done. I’d feel comfortable doing this in a parking lot with help from my teenage son. (Really hoping not to experience this again, but the old Boy Scout motto of “Be Prepared” is useful here.)
I should have listed siphon as a necessity if you have to drain the tank. You will also need something to hold the DEF for an hour too.
Note that not every coach needs the tank dropped to do the swap.
- Richard
__________________
Richard & Denise
2019 VTDP 4310 K2
2019 Expedition, Nighthawk & AF1
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07-10-2021, 06:58 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,505
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We are here in Gillette Wyoming at FMCA rally and surprised by the looking at different model coaches who are putting things like air control and other items right above DEF tank which would make getting DEF head out difficult and may require pull the tank out.
Newmar Man
__________________
Tom/Teri 16031 NKK 117995 FMCA
18 London Aire 4531 Spartan K-3 605
97-04 LA 04-18 Essex 2018 London Aire
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07-10-2021, 07:08 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 3,122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gesmone
I had all three codes, temp, quality and quantity. I just replaced the DEF head assembly.
Has anyone done this without clearing the codes? Did the codes clear themselves after getting good readings? If you didn’t clear the codes, did it cause issues down the road?
Thanks in advance for the answers.
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I realize you asked the question quoted above several months ago, but for what it may be worth to you or anyone else, a partial answer to your question is available in this post:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/lat...ml#post5650775
Based on information I’ve read & heard since the time of that post, it seems increasingly clear that the DEF sensor fault codes will clear themselves once the bad DEF head has been replaced with a good one. It may take several start/stop cycles, but you shouldn't need a code reader or a visit to your local Cummins facility.
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2022 Newmar Super Star 4061
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07-10-2021, 07:15 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 3,122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderRidge
Replacing the DEF head looks complicated. Lots of hoses and wires. Is this really that easy? Any special tools required? Can this be done fairly quickly and on the side of the road after a shutdown? I am fairly mechanical but, just a quick look at the connections looks quite involved. Did you have to do a DPF Regeneration after the replacement?
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I believe most if not all of the info you're seeking is covered in this post:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/latest-member-of-the-snakebit-by-def-system-club-525122-9.html#post5683587
And no, it is not necessary to do a DPF regen after replacing the DEF head. At least I didn't have to and I've not heard of anyone else who had to.
One other point, which is important. On my 2018 Entegra Cornerstone, the DEF head can be removed and replaced without having to drop or remove the DEF tank. On coaches where the DEF tank needs to be dropped or removed, that part of the job may well be more complicated and time consuming than replacing the DEF head.
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2022 Newmar Super Star 4061
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07-10-2021, 07:15 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Winter: Fort Wilderness Campground
Posts: 658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandDescape
If you can get a replacement DEF head you can limp to a safe place to swap it. It isn’t something I’d want to do on the shoulder of a road but it can be done in the first box store parking lot. You may need an assistant but it can be done. I’d feel comfortable doing this in a parking lot with help from my teenage son. (Really hoping not to experience this again, but the old Boy Scout motto of “Be Prepared” is useful here.)
I should have listed siphon as a necessity if you have to drain the tank. You will also need something to hold the DEF for an hour too.
Note that not every coach needs the tank dropped to do the swap.
- Richard
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You may be able to limp to a safe spot? That all depends on where you are when it happens. I took back roads home from Florida and I definitely went at least 100 miles on a two lane road with no shoulder. There is no definite answer on how far you can really go.
Your post said it took two techs to remove the tank. I travel by myself many times. Then you are going to need somewhere to put the DEF that is drained. Then you are going to make sure you have all the correct tools . The screws on top are not Phillips head. Then how are you going to clear the codes.
I think having a spare head is great so when you get towed to a service facility at least you have the part. IMHO it’s giving false hope to suggest that most owners are going to do this repair themselves.
__________________
Paul, Cathy and Chocolate Lab, RIO
2018 Newmar Dutch Star 4362 (Spartan)
2012 Ford F-150
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07-10-2021, 08:26 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 577
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Def head replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderRidge
…IMHO it’s giving false hope to suggest that most owners are going to do this repair themselves.
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Sorry I wasn’t trying to say anything about most other folks. But for those with 2 bodies (or the car jack from their towed) I am going to be honest and say that what I witnessed can be done in a parking lot. Having heard the horror stories of RVs being towed I will work hard to avoid that situation.
I’ll have to look in the morning at the screws at the top of my tank maybe they aren’t Phillips. I always carry my security bit set because you never know what you will need: DEWALT Screwdriver Set, Security, 31-Piece (DWAX200) https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00C1XZI...ing=UTF8&psc=1
Like any of the other breakdowns that can befall an RV driver out there, everyone has to determine for themselves what is best for their situation when it happens.
- Richard
__________________
Richard & Denise
2019 VTDP 4310 K2
2019 Expedition, Nighthawk & AF1
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07-11-2021, 07:44 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 577
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Just checked, Paul was correct that at least on my '19 Spartan K2 chassis they used a T25 bit not a Phillips.
- Richard
__________________
Richard & Denise
2019 VTDP 4310 K2
2019 Expedition, Nighthawk & AF1
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07-12-2021, 02:14 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron73
Is there a way to easily identify the updated shaw heads?
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The only way I was able to identify what generation sensor I received was on the packaging. They sent me the sensor and not the whole def head..
EDIT: Oops, wasn't even on the package, it was on the packing slip.
__________________
Renee (and Alfie & Sophie, Coton du Tulears)
2022 LA 4551
2017 GMC Yukon Denali
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07-12-2021, 02:27 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LWBAZ
I believe most if not all of the info you're seeking is covered in this post:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/latest-member-of-the-snakebit-by-def-system-club-525122-9.html#post5683587
And no, it is not necessary to do a DPF regen after replacing the DEF head. At least I didn't have to and I've not heard of anyone else who had to.
One other point, which is important. On my 2018 Entegra Cornerstone, the DEF head can be removed and replaced without having to drop or remove the DEF tank. On coaches where the DEF tank needs to be dropped or removed, that part of the job may well be more complicated and time consuming than replacing the DEF head.
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Larry, on the 2020 model year, at least on the cornerstone, they mounted the Valid air manifold right above the def tank. However, it’s just a matter of taking out three bolts and tying the manifold up out of the way, not a big deal.
And yes you can clear the codes after replacing the def probe, without a code reader.
Replacing the def probe, even with tying up the valid air manifold, is probably one of the easier things to do on a Mh.
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06-05-2023, 03:41 PM
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#25
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Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 44
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DEF head replacement help
I know there are plenty of post on Head issues, bypassing and like. My question is this:
I am replacing the sensor due to a failure. The replacement sensor is Gen 7 from Spartan. I am somewhat mechanical but I cannot figure how to remove the retaining clips from the DEF suction and return lines. They look like the lock but can’t find a release.
Any help?
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06-05-2023, 06:49 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Fulltime, Formally SF Bay Area
Posts: 632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gesmone
I had all three codes, temp, quality and quantity. I just replaced the DEF head assembly.
Has anyone done this without clearing the codes? Did the codes clear themselves after getting good readings? If you didn’t clear the codes, did it cause issues down the road?
Thanks in advance for the answers.
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We had a DEF head failure 2 years ago. Mobile tech handled replacement of the entire head assy provided by Spartan. He completed in 30 - 45 minutes without removing the tank but mentioned he had done several in the past. After completing replacement he accessed the computer and said codes were gone and did not have to remove the codes.
__________________
Ken C
2018 Dutch Star 4052 Spartan
2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
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06-05-2023, 09:45 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddobbs
I know there are plenty of post on Head issues, bypassing and like. My question is this:
I am replacing the sensor due to a failure. The replacement sensor is Gen 7 from Spartan. I am somewhat mechanical but I cannot figure how to remove the retaining clips from the DEF suction and return lines. They look like the lock but can’t find a release.
Any help?
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There should be a locking mechanism on the connector. You push the DEF line in towards the sensor nipple first. While the connector is pushed in you should see a pair of “tabs” located on opposite sides of the connector. Those “tabs” have to be squeezed carefully (needle-nosed pliers should work but there are fork-shaped clip-like tools made for the job) and while they are compressed you should be able to pull the connector free from the sensor.
It’s kind of like disconnecting an air compressor line quick disconnect but with a lock.
You can Google “how to release DEF line connector locks” or something similar and you should be able to find videos and instructions.
Good luck.
__________________
2021 Entegra Aspire 44W
Previous: 2006 Newmar Essex 4508
2013 Tiffin Allegro Open Road
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