Do my figures add up

[gpshay]

So I have been contemplating purchasing a new 2023 Newmar Bay Star 3629 .. I sold our 35U Adventure and I miss the RV travel .. I recently viewed a You Tube of a couple that owned a Holiday Rambler and they brought their coach [gasser] to Liquid Springs for an installation .. they were turned down at first because the coach loaded was to heavy .. they purged & removed enough items to reach their 1100 lb goal .. So this got me to thinking about my potential weight so I started crunching the numbers and looking at the specs. on the 3629 ..

Floor Plan 3629 Rear Hitch Rating Trailer 5000 Rear Hitch Rating Vertical 500 Front GAWR 9000 Rear GAWR 17500 GVWR 26000 GCWR 3000 APP. UVW 22700 APP. NCC 3300

So what I have concluded the only real number that I need to be concerned about is the APP. NCC of 3300 lbs. which I should Not surpass that poundage .. ?

Here is some of my calculations :

3300 lbs.[APP. NCC]- 1209 lbs. = [gas, water & propane] = 2091 lbs. - 420 lbs. [ 2 people & 2 dogs ] = 1671 lbs. - 400 lbs [Liquid Springs / according to LS with what they remove and replace you gain or lose depending upon how you look at it approximately 400 lbs ] = 1271 lbs I believe this is what I have to work with regarding my extras .. like food, clothing, tools, patio furniture ect. ... does not seem to be a very friendly number .. what say you folks about my calculations .. thanks Glenn

[Dennis C.]

I think that seems reasonable except for the weight of gasoline. That should already be factored into your UVW if I’m not mistaken. You’ll figure your CCC by starting with your GVWR, then subtract your specific vehicle’s UVW, then subtract the weight of a full tank of propane at 4.2 lbs. per gallon. This CCC number will then be used as your base from which you subtract the weight of any water you’re carrying at 8.3 lbs. per gallon, passengers, cargo, etc. Dealer installed equipment and the tongue weight of a towed trailer will also reduce your CCC.

[Shadow5501]

No, Your calculation is incorrect because OCCC includes a full tank of fuel. Fuel does not consume cargo capacity. Some manufacturers also include full propane (Tiffin) though I’m not sure about Newmar. So starting with 3300lb, the LS installation takes it down to 2900lb (assuming their diet works). Full water reduces that by 625lb to 2275. Add people and dogs and you are at about 1850 remaining for food, beer, clothes, beer, camping gear, tools, and of course beer. Dunno about you but that seems workable for a two passenger 36ft motorhome. Granted we don’t know about propane, but that’s plus or minus 100lbs so not a deal breaker.

Anecdotally, I own a 36ft Tiffin on the 26K Ford chassis, similar-ish to the 3626 floorplan. It started life with OCCC right at 3000. I have the earlier not weight reduced four corner LS suspension on it - I was install #10 at the factory, right after the Newmar YouTube people. I don’t have before and after weights from the install, unfortunately. But I did weigh the rig on the most recent outing. It was at 100% fuel, 100% water, 75% propane, two passengers + dog, and fully loaded with clothes, food (almost a months worth), sports gear, tools, fluids, 100 cans of my dogs prescription food, etc. It would have been difficult to carry anything additional because there was almost no storage space available. Weight was 8900 front, 16,420 rear, 25,320 total. So front axle was within 100lbs of the limit, rear axle had more than a thousand remaining, and 700ish below GVWR. Definately using all the capacity of the Ford chassis, but within specifications.

You’d be starting with 300lbs more capacity than I did and adding 200lb less Liquid Spring. Seems like it’d be fine.

[jaydee325]

I contacted Newmar and got the weight sheet for my coach. It seems to indicate that the weight includes fuel. Contact Newmar for sure.

The base advertised CCC does not include options added to the base coach, so be aware of that. My Ventana, as indicated by the weight sheet, has a little over 1700 lbs of options and that is subtracted from the advertised CCC.

[NXR]

Don't guess. If you know of some for sale in your configuration ask the dealer to send you a picture of the OCCC sticker or just tell you. The OCCC sticker is unique to each motorhome and includes all factory options.

Once you have a few numbers you'll know what the likely range is.

Ray

[Jabber Jaw]

gpshay.......


Just an "FYI"....if load carrying capacity is important to you.

BAY STAR "3609" model has the greatest "load capacity" of the 36'-39' models.
Refer to the Newmar brochure for specifics. It has two slides, but is still quite roomy.

I have a 2020 Canyon Star "3710" (same floorplan), also on a 26,000GVWR chassis, and "Liquid Spring" suspension. With all the "stuff" I carry, I still have an additional 875# load capacity. And I carry 2 ladders, a tool box, a "DI" unit, an air compressor, chairs, rug, extra table, wash & cleaning supplies, etc. And closets & drawers full of clothes, along with cooking & eating supplies, & food!!

And we tow a 2017 GMC Terrain!

Best of Luck on your decision, & you will be more than Happy with the ride drive, & handling of Liquid Spring!!
Mine rides better than my neighbors Tiffin "DP"....his words, not mine!

[gpshay]

Thank you All for responding .. I have reached out to Newmar for the OCCC weight .. and it does make sense to me that gasoline would be subtracted before the factory would consider the OCCC weight .. Al thanks for your info on your gear and LS .. Glenn

[NXR]

Originally Posted by gpshay

.. and it does make sense to me that gasoline would be subtracted before the factory would consider the OCCC weight

OCCC is a federally mandated sticker so it really is an apples to apples comparison. All fluids needed for the vehicle part itself are topped off prior to being weighed for the OCCC sticker. So the fuel tank is full when the motorhome is weighed to create the OCCC sticker.

The US OCCC sticker will show the weight of full fresh water BUT any added water is considered part of the cargo.

In contrast, the Canadian OCCC sticker, which mine also has, is created with the fresh water system full. So the Canadian sticker will show less OCCC (in kilograms) because it assumes everyone travels with full fresh water. But the numbers total up the same.


For reference, the OCCC sticker for our 38' motorhome on the 22,000 GVWR chassis is attached. I've seen a few OCCC stickers for another, slightly shorter, 22,000 lb GVWR motorhome in the Georgetown series that had an OCCC of barely over 1,800 lbs. So those folks have a full half-ton less Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity than we do.

The "no options" OCCC for that one model seemingly is just over 2,100 lbs. Forest River, in order to build a shorter 36' motorhome in their top-of-the-line gas model series of the GT7, chose the 22K chassis instead of the usual 24K chassis but still built it as heavy as the 24K chassis models. So two GT7 models are on the 24K chassis with a 3,000 lb OCCC while the third GT7 model is on the 22K chassis with over 900 lbs less OCCC.

The point of that dissertation is to never assume that one model in the same series has the same OCCC. You don't know until you look at the stickers. And like you did, ask before acting. Good job.

Don't forget to do the (GCWR minus GVWR) math as well for your model's chassis. The 22K and 26K Ford F-53 chassis have an unrestricted towing capacity of 4,000 lbs while the 24K chassis has an unrestricted towing capacity of 6,000 lbs. That calculation sets your baseline for what you can tow.

Please post whatever Newmar says the OCCC range is for each model.

Ray

[NXR]

One note on Liquid Springs. Back in December 2022 I queried LS about the installed weight of front and rear Liquid Springs on the Ford F-53 chassis. This was the reply:

You are very close on your numbers you would be adding approximately 550 Lbs. to either the V8 or the V10 chassis.

The GVWR doesn’t really make any difference to the weight add.

We are in the process of reducing the weight of our suspension on the F53 which will take about 200 pounds off of the 550 pounds we currently add.

Please let me know if you would like more detailed information.

Thank you,

Wayne Wells

Mr. Wells seems to be the go-to guy at LS for this type of information, which is why I included his name.

The 400 lbs you specified is the usual number given for just rear Liquid Springs on the F-53. So either your quote was for just rear LS or they have completed their weight reduction program but there's no mention of it on their web site yet.

The LS blog on the difference between just rear or front and rear: https://liquidspring.com/the-differe...v-suspensions/

While it would mean more downtime you might want to get a quote for front and rear LS installed after you take delivery rather than installed by Newmar. Recently I've seen people say they were quoted under $30,000 by the non-OEM installers for front and rear while at an RV show the Newmar people said they charged about $30,000 just for the rear as OEM.

Any delivery delay probably depends on whether Newmar has pre-installed LS on any F-53 chassis or whether they need to ship the chassis out. I know Forest River says they need to ship the F-53 chassis from their factory to the installer and back so there are added delays and costs if LS is factory-installed.

While factory-installed is more convenient, it may a lot more expensive for less capability.

FWIW,

Ray

[permitwriter]

Are you towing? Any toad weight above 4K lbs. must be subtracted from the CCC. You have a towing capacity of 5K. But the difference between the GVWR and the GCWR is only 4K.

The GVWR, GCWR and the towing capacity all have to be considered together and none of them should be exceeded.

[Jabber Jaw]

Originally Posted by NXR

One note on Liquid Springs. Back in December 2022 I queried LS about the installed weight of front and rear Liquid Springs on the Ford F-53 chassis. This was the reply:

You are very close on your numbers you would be adding approximately 550 Lbs. to either the V8 or the V10 chassis.

The GVWR doesn’t really make any difference to the weight add.

We are in the process of reducing the weight of our suspension on the F53 which will take about 200 pounds off of the 550 pounds we currently add.

Please let me know if you would like more detailed information.

Thank you,

Wayne Wells

Mr. Wells seems to be the go-to guy at LS for this type of information, which is why I included his name.

The 400 lbs you specified is the usual number given for just rear Liquid Springs on the F-53. So either your quote was for just rear LS or they have completed their weight reduction program but there's no mention of it on their web site yet.

The LS blog on the difference between just rear or front and rear: https://liquidspring.com/the-differe...v-suspensions/

While it would mean more downtime you might want to get a quote for front and rear LS installed after you take delivery rather than installed by Newmar. Recently I've seen people say they were quoted under $30,000 by the non-OEM installers for front and rear while at an RV show the Newmar people said they charged about $30,000 just for the rear as OEM.

Any delivery delay probably depends on whether Newmar has pre-installed LS on any F-53 chassis or whether they need to ship the chassis out. I know Forest River says they need to ship the F-53 chassis from their factory to the installer and back so there are added delays and costs if LS is factory-installed.

While factory-installed is more convenient, it may a lot more expensive for less capability.

FWIW,

Ray

First....NEWMAR does not install, nor even recommend "Liquid Spring" suspension.
Per John Samoot, "Newmar feels the gas coach buyer has the intelligence to make the decision as to what is best for their Coach"! His quote, made at the 2022 Tamps Super RV Show, as I asked the question about why did Newmar not make "Liquid Spring" an available option.

According to Wayne Wells, each RV manufacturer has an outside entity do the "LS" installation. The RV manufacturer will "mark up" the installation of "LS", thus giving them am opportunity to recover their cost, & maybe make a few dollars profit, for handling the installation for the end user!

I do strongly believe that "Liquid Spring" suspension installation will give you the best possible ride/drive/handling gas Coach, for the Make/Model you own, of anything in the RV Industry! I also believe that the ride will be equal to, if not better, than a "DP" (any make), which has a "solid front axle" suspension like a Gas Coach! Others may disagree, but until they have made the driving comparison, don't cast dispersion upon the gas coach! I have a neighbor with a Tiffin "DP", whose comment, after driving my Newmar, was, "Your coach rides & drives better than my Tiffin"! He meant it, not as a negative toward his Tiffin, but to acknowledge the fact that the "LS" suspension was exceptional!

Is it worth the cost/investment? To some, "NO"! To others, "Absolutely"!
To be able to drive down the road, without the rattles, the clatter, the bridge "bangs", & the expansion joint "thump, thump", makes it totally worthwhile, & my coach is a pleasure to drive!!

Best of Luck, make whatever choices seem to be correct for your situation, but most of all; "HAPPY RV'ing", & Enjoy the Travels!