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12-14-2021, 03:29 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 680
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For people who may be unaware, the AGS system can also be programed to not start up during quiet hours. This may require that you add in a little extra charge to your batteries before quiet hours in the evening by manually starting your generator.
Making another bag of popcorn!
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Howard & Cheryl
2021 Dutch Star 4081
2018 F150, 1997 Jeep Cherokee, 2021 Tesla
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12-14-2021, 06:22 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: camping somewhere.
Posts: 172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don
I'm going to disagree, as I know exactly what it takes to charge my batteries after using them all night, watching TV and pretty much camping as if we have power. I have a BMK and I get SOC on my panel. It takes from 2.5 - 3.0 to bring my batteries back to full charge in the morning. In the evening, if we've been gone all day, we use the generator at dinner time and get back to full charge in 2.0 -2.5 hours.
Having an opinion is fine, but in real life, you can get back to full charge.
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No problem Don,
I just cannot get my 6 8D batteries to full charge in that amount of time. So in my case it is a fact. Also Battery University provides factual information. We still dry camp and will continue to improve our equipment. New refrigerator, and perhaps a little solar. As I mentioned my fridge is a hog.
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12-14-2021, 06:44 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hoodsport Wa
Posts: 3,116
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We dry camp often, but do not have an all electric coach, or any solar to speak of. Really don't have much to add but this... We bring our Honda EU2000 to be "neighborly" if we have others next door. Love em or hate em, LP refrigerators have their place for boondocking. As others have suggested, try it with the AGS. Most of all have fun with your new rig.
__________________
2000 Alpine 36 FDS #74058
04 Jeep Wrangler TJ
"On the road to find out..."
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12-14-2021, 08:35 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 680
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The inverter/charger as well as the type of batteries and the battery bank capacity have a lot to due with the generator run time that will be required. IMO, Newmar does us a great disservice by including 8 AGM batteries on the all electric coach option. If they included just 4 lithium 100ah batteries instead, we would actually have significantly more watt hours of usable capacity, a much higher and quicker charge rate is possible, and unlike lead acid, they don't have to be fully charged for optimum life span-in fact it's probably better to only charge to 80-90% for maximum battery life. This would have added very little extra cost to the "all electric" option IMO. I plan to look for the first excuse I can to toss the AGM's and add 4-8 lithiums. I will do this swap way before I entertain the addition of solar. My last coach I had lead acids and a fairly good size solar system and the charging benefit was not very good on the lead acid batteries but I know people with lithiums and solar and that seems to work real well. But biggest bang for the buck I still think are lithiums. Another big benefit of the lithiums is they are much much lighter which means you will have a lot more cargo carrying capacity-though not an issue on our 4081's.
__________________
Howard & Cheryl
2021 Dutch Star 4081
2018 F150, 1997 Jeep Cherokee, 2021 Tesla
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12-19-2021, 03:29 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Damon Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 378
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Honest question- Isn't "all electric" sort of a marketing term when you consider you are really just trading propane for diesel? And isn't propane a cleaner and more efficient fuel then diesel? I think generator charge times for a propane coach would be alot less then an all electric coach. What am I missing here?
Also, setting AGS for 11.9V start seems quite early unless your generator uses the coach batteries to start which would be an odd setup. I think most coaches use the chassis batteries to start the generator. My converters owners manual lists 10.5V as the hard cut-off for lead acid deep cycle batteries. We don't go that low but we regularly get in the low elevens (11.0-11.2), especially when running the furnace all night. Those are under load voltages of course. I always see conflicting info about this topic.
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Jeff & Kelly
2008 Damon Astoria 3776 PE
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12-19-2021, 03:50 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidEM
I am a bit surprised that this topic has generated much interest. Dry camping in a 40' diesel pusher, wow! Where do you dry camp with one of these? Maybe a Walmart or Cracker Barrel on the road to your final destination, but I rather doubt anyone spends any length of time in one of these without full hookups.
This MH just wouldn't fit in most of the dry campsites in SP and USFS campgrounds I camp in.
David
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I dry camp most of the time with just short of a 75 foot rig. Could not do it without Google maps and a protractor to calculate turn radius etc using the scale on the map. A lot of people do it. If you race, off-road an ATV or truck, camp way out in the weeds, dry camping is your only option. The best thing you can do is to frequently run everything in the RV whether you need to or not.
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12-19-2021, 04:40 PM
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#35
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don
I'm going to disagree, as I know exactly what it takes to charge my batteries after using them all night, watching TV and pretty much camping as if we have power. I have a BMK and I get SOC on my panel. It takes from 2.5 - 3.0 to bring my batteries back to full charge in the morning. In the evening, if we've been gone all day, we use the generator at dinner time and get back to full charge in 2.0 -2.5 hours.
Having an opinion is fine, but in real life, you can get back to full charge.
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It is impossible to fully charge lead acid batteries that fast because as this type of battery charges the internal resistance increases and the current drops. You can charge this type of battery quite fast to 80% and then the charging process slows. That is why solar is good for the last 10-20% because you don't need much current. That is while LiFePo batteries are so much better because they can charge at very high current all the way until they are full.
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12-19-2021, 04:47 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jzack
Also, setting AGS for 11.9V start seems quite early unless your generator uses the coach batteries to start which would be an odd setup. I think most coaches use the chassis batteries to start the generator. My converters owners manual lists 10.5V as the hard cut-off for lead acid deep cycle batteries. We don't go that low but we regularly get in the low elevens (11.0-11.2), especially when running the furnace all night. Those are under load voltages of course. I always see conflicting info about this topic.
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I now have LiFePO4 batteries, but when I had lead acid, I followed this chart religiously. Tried to never go below 50% SOC.
__________________
Scottsdale, AZ
2020 Newmar Ventana 4369 + 2022 Chevy Blazer Towed
2016 Tiffin Open Road 36LA
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12-19-2021, 05:25 PM
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#37
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishumph
We purchased a 2021- 4018 Dutch Star and received somewhat a a confused walk thru and I just wanted to get some idea of others experiences & do's and don'ts when dry camping. My main concern is heating and I assume that the Oasis will send hot water to the air conditioner/heater units and then the heat is circulated with 12 volt fans. We live in Oregon so it is relatively cold with the exception of Summer and so far we have only used it at RV parks with full 50 amp hook ups. We had and older 41 foot class A that we traded in but it had propane heaters and we dry camped all the time and understand we need to monitor the voltage and run the generator to charge the batteries daily but just don't want to get in a situation where I drain the batteries the first night. Any thoughts / recommendations would be appreciated!
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If you do a lot of dry camping have solar installed if you don't already have some use house panel they are a lot cheaper and change to lithium batteries, they are not cheap but prices have come down and you can drain them to 20% vs 50% for LA's and they will be the last you will by, you can cycle the 2500 to 3500 time vs 350 for LAs
__________________
2003 NEWMAR DUTCH STAR 4005, 350 ISC, SPARTAN
2000 BMW 540I 6 SPEED
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12-19-2021, 05:50 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Mooresville Indiana
Posts: 175
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First, sorry to hear about your poor pick up experience. That’s all too common unfortunately. To your point:
You’ll need generator for A/C, electro cook top will not work unless plugged in and I don’t believe heated floors will either. Be sure and learn the August hot… that’ll save your water. Set AGS for sure to avoid running your batteries dry.
__________________
Melanie and Brian Elo
Mooresville Indiana
2020 Newmar Dutchstar 4054 DP- Spartan K2 Chassis; tag axel
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12-19-2021, 06:49 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 338
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All this talk on how to camp reminded me of my
Youth. 3 friends and i backpacked in the new hampshire wilderness for 2 weeks. Culminating
Our trip acsending mt Washington. While taking in the scenic beauty of the place we heard this
awful noise . Rising over the ridge belching smoke
And blowing a whistle came this train actually
The cog railway train. All these old folks got off the train to view the scenic beauty. I was 18
At the time and thought this was disgusting.
I wanted to throw rocks at the train for ruining
my experience. Cut to 50 yrs later and i found
Myself my wife and our grandkid riding that train
To get to the top. The brakeman/tour guide
who was very entertaining was asked why he carried this huge bolster wrench in his back pocket. His reply was "hikers" and i laughed.
Everyones experience is different. I cant lay on the ground anymore arthritis and the like. To get
Thay pristine experience i would still say backpacking is the way to do it. In a dry campground i expect to hear gennys running.
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12-19-2021, 08:01 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Damon Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvcampbell
I now have LiFePO4 batteries, but when I had lead acid, I followed this chart religiously. Tried to never go below 50% SOC. Attachment 351828
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That chart references batteries that have been at rest for two hours. That seems impractical for camping purposes. The voltage limits I would like to know are while under load.
Maybe there are too many variables for such a chart?
__________________
Jeff & Kelly
2008 Damon Astoria 3776 PE
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12-20-2021, 12:02 AM
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#41
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 58
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Sorry ,,, but I honestly think that all electric coach is modern joke. No way you can fry eggs on electric stove and get same taste as on propane.
Plus. Getting LA batteries to full charge will take more then 2-3 hours because those batteries chemistry process takes time to actually transfer energy and store in charged chemical state. Usually at least 8 hours to be sure it is done completely.
LIFEPO4 or Lithium have different properties and make energy transfer faster , but LA will not and never did.
That why most electric forklifts with LA batteries leave battery chargers overnight for new shift.
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12-20-2021, 02:26 AM
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#42
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Corona, CA
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatyanka
Sorry ,,, but I honestly think that all electric coach is modern joke. No way you can fry eggs on electric stove and get same taste as on propane.
Plus. Getting LA batteries to full charge will take more then 2-3 hours because those batteries chemistry process takes time to actually transfer energy and store in charged chemical state. Usually at least 8 hours to be sure it is done completely.
LIFEPO4 or Lithium have different properties and make energy transfer faster , but LA will not and never did.
That why most electric forklifts with LA batteries leave battery chargers overnight for new shift.
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Why can’t you fry eggs on an induction cooktop? How would they be different cooked on propane?
__________________
Greg and Lurean Hindson
2020 Newmar Dutch Star 4369
Spartan. HWH Active Air
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