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Old 01-13-2021, 02:27 PM   #1
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Dumping air tanks on Newmar Dutch Star

From another thread, somebody had posted a Spartan "how to dump your airbags" document, and I have one question about the instructions.

From the document:

Test Procedure:
1. With engine off, make sure both air gauges read 70 PSI or less. If they read higher, pump
the brake pedal until the air pressure gauges read 70 PSI or less.
2. Start the engine and run at high idle (1,200 RPM or higher) until the Air Drier purges in
the rear of the vehicle.
3. Turn the engine OFF, but leave the ignition switch ON so that the gauges are powered up
and reading the air pressure.

My question is with regard to step 2: how does one determine when "air drier purgets in the rear of the vehicle" is finished?

Tom
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:43 PM   #2
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You will hear it. Itís similar to the sound heard when engaging parking brake.
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Old 01-13-2021, 03:49 PM   #3
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The air dryer purging is not the same as draining your tanks. The air dryer will remove the majority of the moisture in the system, but it will not remove any water that has accumulated in your tanks. For that the only way is to open the drain valve on the tank, engine off of course. Not clear in what you’re trying to accomplish here.
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:01 PM   #4
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Spartan installs a muffler on the air dryer that makes it more difficult to hear the air dryer purge. Some have removed that muffler as it does nothing to enhance air system operation. Simply a noise reduction device so that your air dryer purge is less offensive to your campground neighbors.

If you watch your air tank pressures closely while the compressor is building air pressure, you'll notice a steady increase in pressure until the air governor reaches its cut-off pressure and the air dryer purges. At that point, you'll see a slight pressure drop on your air pressure gauges.

As I understand the procedure for draining moisture from the air tanks, depressing the brakes to get the tank pressures below 70 psi is just to be sure that after engine start, the air governor will be below cut-in pressure (by regulation, that must be above 100 psi) causing the air tanks to pressurize to the air governor cut-out pressure (should be 25 psi above the cut-in pressure) so that you have relatively high tank pressures (~120 psi) to cause the purge of water to be more effective.

Take care,
Stu
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:38 PM   #5
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There is one other aspect regarding manually purging air tanks that may not be fully understood.

Although Spartan recommends periodically manually purging your air tanks, and I fully support that recommendation, the lanyard that you pull is connected to an automatic purge valve. The automatic valve works on internal pressure differential meaning the valve momentarily opens to remove moisture every 15-18 p.s.i.. Automatic valves also have a manual drain and are available in heated versions for cold climates.

If the automatic drain valves are functioning properly, it seems to me that the manual purging isn't necessary. However, since any water in your air system can cause significant, and costly to repair damage, periodically manually purging water from your air tanks is a good practice.

I'm far from a subject matter expert on this. I'd be happy if a true subject matter expert would correct anything that's wrong with my understanding.

Take care,
Stu
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 777 Driver View Post
There is one other aspect regarding manually purging air tanks that may not be fully understood.

Although Spartan recommends periodically manually purging your air tanks, and I fully support that recommendation, the lanyard that you pull is connected to an automatic purge valve. The automatic valve works on internal pressure differential meaning the valve momentarily opens to remove moisture every 15-18 p.s.i.. Automatic valves also have a manual drain and are available in heated versions for cold climates.

If the automatic drain valves are functioning properly, it seems to me that the manual purging isn't necessary. However, since any water in your air system can cause significant, and costly to repair damage, periodically manually purging water from your air tanks is a good practice.

I'm far from a subject matter expert on this. I'd be happy if a true subject matter expert would correct anythnig that's wrong with my understanding.

Take care,
Stu
Spot on Stu! All the automatic stuff is nice, but if you plan to be a long term owner, you have to take charge of the little things to make the thing last. In the Fire Service, you drain the tanks manually during your weekly checks. So 52 times per year as opposed to....never?
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Old 01-13-2021, 07:22 PM   #7
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Help. It certainly sounds like Iím doing something wrong. I dump air from the HWH key pad every time I load and unload my Goldwing from the lift on the rear. Is there another way I should be dumping air to improve the longevity of my coach?
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Old 01-13-2021, 07:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Help. It certainly sounds like I’m doing something wrong. I dump air from the HWH key pad every time I load and unload my Goldwing from the lift on the rear. Is there another way I should be dumping air to improve the longevity of my coach?
No. Completely different issue. Dump all you want. I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure we are talking about air tanks here.
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Old 01-13-2021, 08:48 PM   #9
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Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. Yes, R. Wold is correct: we're talking about the air tanks, and the "manual procedure" that Spartan describes for regularly purging them of water (involving pulling three colored (silver/green/red) lanyards underneath the RV.

R. Wold, it appears that I may have caused some confusion, insofar as my original post *only* showed the first three steps of a "test procedure," that precedes the actual manual purge with the lanyards. And the reason I only posted those three steps is because my only real question in this case was wanting to understand exactly what it means in step 2 for the "air dryer to purge." I was unclear how I would know when that had finished, and I could safely move on to step 3, and then to the manual purge stuff.

So I guess I have my answer (from USMCRET), and I'll hear a distinct air purge sound from the drier after running the engine momentarily at high idle.

Thanks all for the replies!

Tom
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Old 01-13-2021, 09:03 PM   #10
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yes, it’s quite audible and all this makes perfect sense. We used to get fire engines on Spartan chassis with the color coded lanyards for the three tanks. We retrofitted other apparatus to this spec as it made things easy and more likely that the procedure would actually be followed.
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Old 01-14-2021, 11:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sartor View Post
Hi all,

So I guess I have my answer (from USMCRET), and I'll hear a distinct air purge sound from the drier after running the engine momentarily at high idle.

Tom
Tom, not to insult you as everyone has different levels of understanding on these complicated machines. You said above that you'll wait for the purge at high idle. Just to make it clear, your coach purges all the time. If you listen, you'll often hear it while waiting at a signal. You'll know it's about to happen as the gauges reach their highest setting and the system purges.

When I air up the coach, I don't move it until the system purges. I know then that everything is inflated and ready to go.
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Old 01-14-2021, 05:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Tom, not to insult you as everyone has different levels of understanding on these complicated machines. You said above that you'll wait for the purge at high idle. Just to make it clear, your coach purges all the time. If you listen, you'll often hear it while waiting at a signal. You'll know it's about to happen as the gauges reach their highest setting and the system purges.

When I air up the coach, I don't move it until the system purges. I know then that everything is inflated and ready to go.
Hi Dutch Star Don,

No insult/offense taken at all, and thanks for the reply! Yes, I understand that the air sytem purges "regularly" based upon various actions (e.g., stepping on the brakes, etc.).

To be clear, the entire reason for my post was just to try to make sure I'm clear on precisely what Spartan is talking about with respect to "step 2" of their "test procedure" prior to doing the manual maintenance dump of the air tanks via the lanyards. Again, here is what is in the "official" document from Spartan, for their "step 2:"

2. Start the engine and run at high idle (1,200 RPM or higher) until the Air Drier purges in the rear of the vehicle.


So I just want to be sure that I know exactly *when* the "...air drier purges in the rear of the vehicle." Is that simply as soon as I hear one of the "normal/common" air purging sounds? Or is there something in particular that I need to wait for with respect to the air drier?

Tom
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Old 01-14-2021, 06:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sartor View Post
So I just want to be sure that I know exactly *when* the "...air drier purges in the rear of the vehicle." Is that simply as soon as I hear one of the "normal/common" air purging sounds? Or is there something in particular that I need to wait for with respect to the air drier?

Tom
Hi Tom,

Yes, it is at exactly that instant that you hear the rush of pressurized air escaping from the air dryer that the purge occurs.

I think you may be obsessing just a little bit about the exact instant of the air dryer purge. Unless you have a leak in your air system or make some other demand for air from your air system (apply service brakes or your ride height sensors call for an increase air bag pressure to adjust ride height), the pressure in your tanks will remain constant. The whole purpose of waiting for the purge in the procedure is to make sure that your air tanks are at their maximum pressure in order to better purge any water from your tanks when you pull the lanyards.

Spartan offers a training session (Spartan Academy) that are an excellent opportunity to become very familiar with your K2 chassis. Those of us who have attended those classes have benefitted greatly. One of the training sessions includes an opportunity for a walkaround inspection of your chassis with a technician, including pointing out the various components on the chassis.

Take care,
Stu
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Old 01-14-2021, 08:30 PM   #14
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Thanks 777 Driver,

Yes indeed, I just may be "obsessing a bit," so sorry about that. My "confusion" was just that I wasn't sure if the Spartan procedure reference to "air dryer purge" was something "special" that I needed to "wait for," vs. just the same/normal air purging sound that I hear all the time as pressure gets dumped.

But your explanation has really helped clear that up, and so now I'm confident with proceeding to follow the rest of the steps and do the periodic air tank maintenance.

Thanks!

Tom
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