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Old 12-05-2020, 03:01 PM   #1
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Error message regarding secondary airbag pressure

Hello,

Today on our recently purchased 2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4369 Spartan, which we've only driven for one trip (back from the dealer), I got an error message regarding the "secondary air pressure" when I first started it up.

As background, the motorhome has been stored (covered/plugged-in) for about two weeks since last being started. Today I started the motorhome, and after the dash meters went through their initial cycle, I got a steady/mild beeping, and the message indicated "secondary air pressure low" or something like that. I saw that the front airbag pressure meter showed only 60 PSI, whereas the rear was at about 100 PSI.

I waited about 30 seconds or so and it kept beeping and didn't seem to change. I then turned off the motorhome, and tried to figure out if there was an issue or not. I went ahead and put the jacks through an auto-level and then an auto-store sequence, and tried a couple of times to just turn the key on then off to see if anything changed, but it kept coming up with the same message. Eventually I tried starting again, and initially got the same beeping and message, but then I actually put my foot on the brake, turned off the parking brake, and then noticed the meter slowly creep up and the beeping stopped. All had seemed to return to normal.

So now I'm just wondering: is this normal behavior if the RV is left stored for a couple weeks, just sitting on the tires (not on jacks/auto-level)? You start it and the bags are low, and it takes a minute or two for things to air up and stop beeping? Or is there possibly an issue that I should have checked out.

Thanks for your insights!

Tom
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Old 12-05-2020, 03:25 PM   #2
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This is perfectly normal. It needs to run a while to build the air back up.
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Old 12-05-2020, 05:57 PM   #3
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It should only take a couple of minutes to build the air pressure back up.

You should be able to put your engine in high idle mode via the steering wheel. This will make your engine idle at 1,000 rpm or so and will build air pressure a bit faster.
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sartor View Post
Hello,

Today on our recently purchased 2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4369 Spartan, which we've only driven for one trip (back from the dealer), I got an error message regarding the "secondary air pressure" when I first started it up.

As background, the motorhome has been stored (covered/plugged-in) for about two weeks since last being started. Today I started the motorhome, and after the dash meters went through their initial cycle, I got a steady/mild beeping, and the message indicated "secondary air pressure low" or something like that. I saw that the front airbag pressure meter showed only 60 PSI, whereas the rear was at about 100 PSI.

I waited about 30 seconds or so and it kept beeping and didn't seem to change. I then turned off the motorhome, and tried to figure out if there was an issue or not. I went ahead and put the jacks through an auto-level and then an auto-store sequence, and tried a couple of times to just turn the key on then off to see if anything changed, but it kept coming up with the same message. Eventually I tried starting again, and initially got the same beeping and message, but then I actually put my foot on the brake, turned off the parking brake, and then noticed the meter slowly creep up and the beeping stopped. All had seemed to return to normal.

So now I'm just wondering: is this normal behavior if the RV is left stored for a couple weeks, just sitting on the tires (not on jacks/auto-level)? You start it and the bags are low, and it takes a minute or two for things to air up and stop beeping? Or is there possibly an issue that I should have checked out.

Thanks for your insights!

Tom
It's normal. If one tank runs out while sitting faster have the lines checked for leaks.
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Old 12-11-2020, 08:17 PM   #5
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Went back to my coach today (in storage), and once again the front airbags were down to about 50PSi, while the rear were at about 115PSI. Started the engine, and the front airbag pressure steadily increased, at about 1-2PSI/second, until they roughly equaled the rear. Both steadily increased with the engine idling, to about 120 - 130PSI.

Then I did some experimenting, and if I simply turn the key *on* (not starting the engine), I hear the air flow (not sure if it's going *out* or *in* to the airbags), for about 1 second. And then when I turn the key back *off*, I hear the air flow for about 3 seconds, and pretty sure it sounds like the air is flowing *out* when I do that. And doing this a few times showed that pretty consistently the pressure in the front airbags goes down about 5-10PSI for each time I cycle the key on/off (again, not *starting* the engine; just cycling on/off), whereas the rear airbags stay pretty constant at the 120-130PSI point.

So, my apologies for my naivete at this point, but I'm really not familiar with how the airbags are *supposed* to cycle with key on/off, and I'm also not familiar with the inspection procedure to try to diagnose where my issue might be.

I'm assuming that I probably have a small leak somewhere with the front airbags, and as a motorcycle mechanic I'm familiar with the concept of using soapy water to try to find an air leak, but can anybody provide any information on a precise diagnostic procedure that I should follow, to try to zero in on where my issue might be? I haven't yet crawled under the coach to try to even *find* the airbags, but looking for suggestions on where to start. And for this kind of issue should I really be looking only for a "Spartan-authorized" service center, or could I rely on any reputable RV repair center to diagnose/fix an issue with the airbags?

Thanks for any insights!

Tom
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Old 12-13-2020, 07:44 AM   #6
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You have stated what needs to be done - soapy water in a spray bottle.

Either you can do it or you can pay someone else to do it.

It really is not rocket science. I would at least see if I could find the leak then go from there depending on where the leak is.
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Old 12-13-2020, 09:27 AM   #7
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I have a ‘19 Ventana on Spartan and it will sit for weeks without losing much pressure. I get the same air noises for a few seconds as the system checks itself when you turn the key to “on” but not “run”. That is normal.

Also I can’t remember the exact mapping but the front are rear pressure gauges are not showing the front and rear bag pressures. Those 2 cover the entire air system including brakes etc.

Not trying to tell you that you don’t have a leak, just trying to say it probably isn’t tied to the “on” position of the key. And a leak could be farther back than the front axle.

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Old 12-13-2020, 10:33 AM   #8
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RandDEscape, that's something I was wondering about. The gauges on the dash are labeled "F" (left side gauge) and "R" (right side gauge) for the two air pressure indicators, so I just *assumed* that that meant "front" and "rear," respectively. But the error message itself for the low one (the one marked "F") states "secondary air pressure."

So I'm actually unclear on exactly which air bags are being monitored by the "F" vs. "R" gauges. Does someone know the answer to that? Just looking to narrow things down as I go searching for my leak.

Tom
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Old 12-13-2020, 10:51 AM   #9
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The air bags are not monitored independently by the gauges.
There are 3 main tanks in your air system Wet, Primary and Secondary. Gauges will monitor the Primary and Secondary tanks. The air suspension is on the secondary on my older coach.
Best bet is to call Spartan and get the air system diagrams. This will help in tracking down and understanding your system.
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Old 12-13-2020, 02:35 PM   #10
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Sartor

As Spk64 posted the secondary is the air bags (all 4), the primary is the brake system. We had a leak and I found that it was a air manifold, in the front behind the gen. Being under warrant I had to bring it to a Spartan shop. While I was there, this is how the tech explained the primary and the secondary air system.

On the beeping, I think it beeps until there is 65 psi in the tanks.

On not airing up, when we lost pressure it was the same as if you would auto dump. You have to press the auto store or as you did put it in gear and remove the parking brake. It should only take a few minutes.

I think once the leak is fixed everything will be fine. Hope this helps and stay safe. Harlan
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Old 01-22-2021, 01:32 PM   #11
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Following up to close out this thread: had the unit serviced at NIRVC Atlanta this week, and one of the items was to inspect/diagnose the seeming secondary air tank leak. Observed behavior was that the secondary airtank was dropping 10-20psi per day, while the primary would stay at about 120psi steady. Also, cycling the ignition key on/off (without starting engine) would cause secondary air tank to drop about 10psi per cycle, whereas primary stayed constant.

Spartan tech at NIRVC responded that the system is working as designed/intended. Spec allows for up to *50* PSI drop per 12-hour period, and also permits drop when cycling ignition key on/off.

So...apparently "all is well." It's not that I've had any issues when actually *driving* the RV. Tanks stay aired up, and all appears well. It's just that I noticed the warning beep when turning on the RV ignition after it was stored for several days, as the secondary air tank was below 80psi, and the warning beep would sound until it aired up. Being unfamiliar with proper operation of the system, I suspected I had an "unintended" leak. But now I'm prepared to accept the verdict of the Spartan tech and move on. :-)

Thanks to the irv2 community again for your insights!

Tom
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