Expert Advice Requested: New 2015 King Aire flooded with 50 gallons of water

[Flanz]

Well - First thing I hope all works out for you and Newmar steps up and makes this right for you. You'll be in this coach for a loooong time.

As for us, we'll wait and see how Newmar handles this. Newmar is also on our short list along with Entegra and American Coach. We'll be purchasing our retirement coach beginning next year and are finalizing our decision over the summer.

Good Luck,

-paul

[BFlinn181]

with Steve Ownby

I'd think less of the is needed.

Waiting for the assessment by Newmar rather than all the jumping on them.

Originally Posted by PDR John
I wonder if Newmar is waiting to see the extent of the damage before making a decision.

I think they also will consider the damage to their reputation if they don't do right by the OP. I'll watch to see the rest of the story.

[HavingABlast]

Originally Posted by PDR John

I wonder if Newmar is waiting to see the extent of the damage before making a decision.

Well folks, I agree with John. While I cannot imagine the stress that the OP is experiencing, I have dealt with insurance claims and manufacturers...let us say "failures". When faced with professional failures, I first take the emotion out of the equation. Let me say this: I know that I couldn't do this if it were my coach...but in this case I'm not.

Without actually examining the coach, Newmar or their insurance company is not** likely to write a check. Both parties here are doing the dance of "I'm not going to say or do anything that would make me look culpable" rather than addressing the problem. I think that Newmar should have immediately dispatched their Customer Service Manager to view the damage and to address the OPs concerns. The issue could be addressed professionally by Newmar, and the OP would be reassured that he was being heard. From there a foundation of trust would be built upon which the solution would arise.

That unfortunately didn't occur. So the next step is to wait for the tech to arrive.... If I were Matt Miller, I would send my best Customer Service person out TODAY to talk with the OP face to face...to diffuse the miss trust, and to address the problem.

-Jerry

** as corrected in reply #115


2015 Newmar Ventana 3636 (on order...delivery date tbd)
2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited

[Bmaintz8]

I'd like to see some pictures on the plumbing connections through out the new Newmars..
No compression indentation on the Plex tube...
Some mentioned that their new Newmars had no such connector...
It's a Puzzle...

[uncnavy2000]

UPDATE:
* We wanted to correct something from our post earlier. Last night around 6:30pm EST, the Sr Lead at Customer Service did send us an email as we had been asking them to let us know "how a Newmar tech can fairly assess water damage where much of it can dry here in arid Vegas over the next week." Again, we do not claim to be experts in water damage or repair but one of our main causes of concern is the long time it takes to get someone here to see the damage and that their stated goal is to take it to Affordable RV for repairs. Newmar's response stated what "they'd do" -- not quite easing our mind of how the Tech can fairly assess water damage from 9 days prior.

The quoted response is below:
"...he is going to thoroughly check all of the electronics in the coach along with all of the wiring, HDMI splitter boxes, electrical J-boxes, slide out ramp, slide out mechanisms. He also going to check all of the cabinetry inside the coach. He will open up the underbelly material and check the subflooring once the insulation is removed. He will go through the inspection with you while he is at the coach and then he will report back to Consumer Affairs with his findings.
I wanted to verify with you after he is finished with his inspection, will you allow him to take the coach over to Affordable RV to begin making the repairs?"

For those that are asking everyone to stop persecuting Newmar. We would agree because this is an incident that is isolated to our coach right now and we understand that this water failure incident is not a "repeated failure" we've ever seen on the boards (believe me -- we've searched high and low for anyone else who had similar problems so that we can learn from that incident and move in the right direction). Our goal here is to let others know what is going on and how it is handled because we are completely out of our depth here in what has happened. We are not engineers nor mechanics which is why we asked for expert advice on the forum. Many wonderful responses have helped us greatly! The most recent post about a fellow RVers insurance evaluation experience with water damage is immensely insightful. Thank you for continued insight because we want to make the right decision for ourselves and family/friends as we drive a coach in the future. If it wasn't for fellow poster's help, the first offer again was to have a local RV tech in Vegas come to our site and rip out the water damage and replace the damage.

We purchased a brand new high end coach which we expected to drive with family and friends for many, many years to come. Even if it comes back completely refurbished, it is tainted in our mind due to the potential issues that could be catastrophic while driving a 50,000 pound vehicle down the highway at 70 mph. Again, if we had bought a used coach, we wouldn't be as upset because we knew the chances we were taking. We purchased a brand new coach which was 3 days out of the factory. It is taking 9 days to get someone to look at it and then they keep asking for our permission to take it for repairs at a local RV shop. That is fine from a corporate perspective, but from someone who has worked hard their entire life to save for this... words fail us.

This is emotionally draining but we've tried to stick to posting the facts here. The safety factors we prioritize for ourselves and family moving forward and the immediate depreciation that we take on a brand new coach (refurbished from water damage) is just mind-boggling to us. A great deal of money lost on something one researches carefully (and over a very long time) to purchase is not an easy pill to swallow.

So as we move forward, we do agree that let's stop persecuting Newmar as an overall company in this thread from one RVer's experience. They can honestly be doing great work for other RVers. In our instance, you know our situation and concerns. We're trying to stay positive but it is very difficult at this point.
Thank you again for all the kind thoughts and valuable insight. We read every post and try to focus on the right thing to do next.
Sincerely,
Mike

[Jim T.]

Public image is everything. Satisfied customers talk to others, which morphs into sales. How many million dollars in lost sales can Newmar afford to lose because of this one dissatisfied customer? This affects their entire product line from the Bay Star to the King Aire. Hopefully the forensic analysis will lead to a solution that satisfies the customer.

On the issue of quality control, if it can be determined with 100% accuracy who the installer was that failed to do the job properly and who the inspector was that failed to properly conduct the QC, consequences should occur. "Lack of a horseshoe nail lost the war!"




FMCA Local Chapter Secretary - Bay Area TravelerS (BATS)

[TwelveVolt]

Does any consumer protection legislation apply to this transaction? Are there any cut-off dates the OP should be aware of?

An optimistic estimate on depreciation + insurance on a coach in this category would be $9000 per month. Once the new owner starts the meter, is it reasonable to have the unit sitting in the shop for manufacturing failures for weeks or months without compensation? Is "We'll get back to you in a week" a reasonable response?

In my business, I would have a tech on the red-eye to mitigate the damage. Additionally, I would want him to assess exactly what happened and how it may affect all the other units on the production line today. As a business owner, I would consider a plane ticket and a couple days of wages to be a justified investment in my manufacturing process, not to mention the customer relations value.

It is in a low humidity environment, which is beneficial to drying surfaces that are exposed to air. Unfortunately, daytime temperatures in the 80's are also conducive to growing mold and facilitating corrosion in non-ventilated areas.

Introducing a lawyer into the discussion at this point may not be beneficial, but I would certainly consult someone immediately who could give me a clear picture of my options. Also, an independent appraisal of the damage and potential future problems might be money well spent. This would give you a list of items to compare to the Newmar list.

[jigsup]

As others have already observed, I understand Newmar's position of first making a physical assessment of existing damage, and taking immediate action to mitigate further damage. Taking the coach to the closest qualified facility, Affordable RV, where the resources are available to thoroughly evaluate, and deconstruct where necessary, to accomplish this phase is understandable.

Where I disagree with Newmar's initial, and only option to Mike, is having him agree to (in writing) authorizing repairs be completed at/by Affordable RV. I do not in any way suggest Affordable RV is not capable of completing the repairs in a thorough and professional manner. In fact, another poster here has already vouched for their competence and quality of work. However, given the totality of all the already obvious damage and potential future long-term damage, there could be no better place than the Newmar factory itself, to conduct the very best refurbishing of this flagship motor home. There are no technicians more qualified, nor more complete resources available, than by the very people and at the very place where the coach was made.

If this were my coach, and I was convinced the motor home could be completely and totally satisfactorily repaired, as opposed to replaced, I would agree to nothing less than insisting all repair work be done no where other than at Newmar itself.

[Jim T.]

Post 106 - completely agree!!


FMCA Local Chapter Secretary - Bay Area TravelerS (BATS)

[newmarpusher]

Originally Posted by jigsup

As others have already observed, I understand Newmar's position of first making a physical assessment of existing damage, and taking immediate action to mitigate further damage. Taking the coach to the closest qualified facility, Affordable RV, where the resources are available to thoroughly evaluate, and deconstruct where necessary, to accomplish this phase is understandable.

Where I disagree with Newmar's initial, and only option to Mike, is having him agree to (in writing) authorizing repairs be completed at/by Affordable RV. I do not in any way suggest Affordable RV is not capable of completing the repairs in a thorough and professional manner. In fact, another poster here has already vouched for their competence and quality of work. However, given the totality of all the already obvious damage and potential future long-term damage, there could be no better place than the Newmar factory itself, to conduct the very best refurbishing of this flagship motor home. There are no technicians more qualified, nor more complete resources available, than by the very people and at the very place where the coach was made.

If this were my coach, and I was convinced the motor home could be completely and totally satisfactorily repaired, as opposed to replaced, I would agree to nothing less than insisting all repair work be done no where other than at Newmar itself.

I fully agree with your assessment. Newmar has to look and see what the damage is first BUT ONLY AFTER THAT ASSESSMENT can the owner and Newmar possibly agree where the repairs should be made.

[PBG]

Originally Posted by BPoland

How many $900K hits can their bottom line take. If it is justified, then take the hit and move on, but if they can fix it for say, $200K, and I say this in capital letters, MAKE IT RIGHT, then they are only out 200K.

I think it's safe to say that unless Newmar has decided to be self-insured, they have a hefty insurance policy in place to cover this specific situation and its liability is limited to the deductible on its policy.

[spinn]

I salute the OP's attitude and patience. These types of issues are draining and emotionally exhausting. Bless you guys for your patience.
Unfortunately in our litigious society Newmar cannot do much until they can accurately access the damage. Even if they wanted to be more supportive their lawyers will probably be telling them to not commit or do anything that could be construed as fault.

I trust that Newmar will do the right thing, they certainly have done that for us in the past. They do have to follow their protocols regardless of how insensitive it might make them look.
In all the discussions regarding materials and testing and workmanship the only thing that hasn't been brought up its that perhaps the fitting was flawed and with enough jostling it failed.

I continue to respect and empathize with the OP and am confident that Newmar will do right by him and his family.

Steve

[PBG]

I'll ask others following this thread this question:

If this was your brand new coach that you just accepted delivery directly from the factory, how many hours/days/weeks would you allow Newmar to have a factory representative on site inspecting your coach?

[HHIDan]

Originally Posted by PBG

I'll ask others following this thread this question:

If this was your brand new coach that you just accepted delivery directly from the factory, how many hours/days/weeks would you allow Newmar to have a factory representative on site inspecting your coach?

On a $800K coach, I want them here yesterday... 9 days, way too long.

A satisfied customer is your best marketing material.