Expert Advice Requested: New 2015 King Aire flooded with 50 gallons of water

[BFlinn181]

Originally Posted by PBG

I'll ask others following this thread this question:

If this was your brand new coach that you just accepted delivery directly from the factory, how many hours/days/weeks would you allow Newmar to have a factory representative on site inspecting your coach?

As long as necessary to check out all the systems and damage.

I don't understand why you're asking, wouldn't you let them check out the damage you'd be claiming they caused by the builder's error?

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by PBG

I'll ask others following this thread this question:

If this was your brand new coach that you just accepted delivery directly from the factory, how many hours/days/weeks would you allow Newmar to have a factory representative on site inspecting your coach?

Well...certainly I would want yesterday but what is reasonable? If you want a factory rep you have to give them time to arrange travel. Do I think a factory rep is a MUST? Really it does depend on what my expectations are?

I agree with the consensus that it should go back to the factory. I also think that Newmar has the right to have their representative (factory or local) inspect the coach to help determine the best course of action. It would be stupid on their part to commit to a new coach or any course of action without that inspection. It would be equally stupid for any owner to agree with any course of action without seeing the results of that inspection and even having an independent inspection.

These things do take time and there is no way around that. This is 5 days out from the event which may seem like (quite understandably) an eternity to Mike but in real time is not that much. If an owner demands and gets a factory rep, it will take longer most of the time than letting a local rep start the process.

I certainly think the time issue will have a more dire impact on a full timer than those that aren't full time. If I have this figured out, Mike is at least "home".

Listen, all of us seem to have emotionally attached ourselves to Mike's situation because of a couple reasons. We have a vested interest in seeing fellow travelers treated right. For us Newmar owners our personal pride in ownership is also at stake.

I think we also can easily get all jacked up on this and in the process perpetuate unrealistic expectations. Sorry if that offends those that think otherwise.

There has been a lot of very good input for Mike to digest. At the same time there has been nearly a mob mentality about the suffering Newmar quality, Newmar reputation and Newmar brand that is unjustly based on one incident. Even Mike has said he has never seen this kind of thing happen.

I repeat, every manufacturer will have a similar kind of incident. Every manufacture puts out a lemon on occasion. When that happens I wish everyone got exactly what they needed. It just isn't reasonable to think otherwise. Having worked in Quality Control for the FAA air traffic controller field all I can say is humans fail, systems fail and the best we can do is find ways to mitigate the affects of those failures and learn from them.

So, if folks talking about shying away from future Newmar purchases because of this want to do so, that is their choice. However, I challenge anyone to find any brand that hasn't had this kind of major disappointment. I don't care if it is Tiffin, WBGO, FR, or what ever. If you buy one and spend a LOT of $$$$ you really are at the mercy of the odds. As a poker player even pocket aces can and do lose and when they do, they tend to lose big.

So...I still feel sick for Mike. I still love my Newmar. I still have a respect for Newmar. I hope Mike gets all he needs and I don't get a rock chip in my Newmar/rose colored glasses after I see the final resolution.

[HavingABlast]

Originally Posted by HavingABlast

Well folks, I agree with John. While I cannot imagine the stress that the OP is experiencing, I have dealt with insurance claims and manufacturers...let us say "failures". When faced with professional failures, I first take the emotion out of the equation. Let me say this: I know that I couldn't do this if it were my coach...but in this case I'm not.

Without actually examining the coach, Newmar or their insurance company is likely to write a check. Both parties here are doing the dance of "I'm not going to say or do anything that would make me look culpable" rather than addressing the problem. I think that Newmar should have immediately dispatched their Customer Service Manager to view the damage and to address the OPs concerns. The issue could be addressed professionally by Newmar, and the OP would be reassured that he was being heard. From there a foundation of trust would be built upon which the solution would arise.

That unfortunately didn't occur. So the next step is to wait for the tech to arrive.... If I were Matt Miller, I would send my best Customer Service person out TODAY to talk with the OP face to face...to diffuse the miss trust, and to address the problem.

-Jerry




2015 Newmar Ventana 3636 (on order...delivery date tbd)
2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited

Oops...I was trying to type fast and was late for work. My sentence should have read:

"Without actually examining the coach, Newmar or their insurance company is [insert...NOT] likely to write a check." An unfortunate error on my part.


DW and I sincerely hope that the OP and Newmar will reach an amicable resolution. Like others on this thread, I will continue to monitor what transpires. I hope that the final resolution will be shared with us.

-Jerry


2015 Newmar Ventana 3636 (on order...delivery date tbd)
2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited

[PBG]

I think you missed my point...maybe it was me! So, I'll clarify:

How much time would you allow for a Newmar Factory Rep to ARRIVE to view the damage of your brand spanking new coach? How long should your new motorhome sit there awaiting evaluation by the factory? If you were running Newmar and this level of damage was reported this early in ownership, wouldn't you send a competent employee (or yourself) over to survey the damage immediately and report back to the factory? After all, I hear the term million mile engine/chassis, but a plumbing system that can't make it 1,000 miles? Really, why should the new buyer be inconvenienced by this? From what the OP has reported, this doesn't seem to have been caused by his negligence. Yes, I'll withhold judgement until Newmar makes a decision, but I'm already questioning my potential purchase of the exact same model due to the factory not taking swift action in this case.

I'm operating under the "assumption" (yes, I know what that means) that judging by the clarity and the details provided by the OP that numerous photos were provided to the factory and they have viewed images of the extent of the surface damage. The OP has already reported numerous electrical failures that resulted from the plumbing (assuming again) defect and as we know, water going anywhere than where it's supposed to go can cause a lot of long term damage.

I wasn't asking how long you would allow them to repair it...but that's a good question in itself. I'll provide my opinion and state that if it's more than a couple of weeks for the factory to provide a full repair/refurbishment, I would expect they should supply a loaner coach of equal stature while they are ripping apart the original coach. This way, at the least, while this refurbishing can take many months, the factory can state that at the least they saved the Summer vacation plans for this customer.

While I'm just standing on the sidelines, I'll be surprised if after the inspection and if it's truly in the condition the OP reported that Newmar doesn't belly up to the bar and simply supply a new coach as a replacement and do so with concessions. With the extent of the damage that the OP reported, this coach is tainted and no matter what the factory does, it will still be the equivalent of a flood damaged motor vehicle.

Another question to ask is how would you expect other motor coach manufacturers to handle this same situation? What if it was a pre-owned Newell that was purchased directly from the factory that's still under warranty that would be in the same price range of a new fully-loaded King Aire? How about Foretravel? If it was new Realm or a new IH-45, how would you expect them to respond? And, how about if it was a pre-owned Prevost that was purchased directly from the converter? In other words, what are our expectations of motor home manufacturers when things go wrong so early in the ownership phase?

I guess what I'm getting act is that as Newmar owners, what are your expectations of quality assurance from Newmar? Remember, what makes this situation a potential textbook case in customer service is that the delivery was performed by the factory and not a dealer. The blame for the defect can not be deflected in this case.

I hope I don't come off as sounding harsh, but I'm just trying to put myself in the shoes of the OP and if it was me, I don't think I would be so patient. I truly think that as consumers of very expensive products we need to hold the manufacturers responsible for delivering the quality we are paying for. Yes, the King Aire is Newmar's flagship motor home, but if it was a Mountain Aire or a Dutch Star, it really doesn't matter as great care should be taken in making sure everything works as advertised.

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

As long as necessary to check out all the systems and damage.

I don't understand why you're asking, wouldn't you let them check out the damage you'd be claiming they caused by the builder's error?

[oakcreekeric]

PBG -

My initial response to your question is yesterday.. but in reality (and without emotion), I would have to give the factory, at a minimum, seven days to get to my vehicle.

From what I can gather, the OP is in Las Vegas, not exactly next door to Nappanee, IN.. Heck, I would suspect the factory rep is either going to drive up to Chicago Midway airport or Indianapolis airport just to get there..

I would have to agree with most of the people who have mentioned giving Newmar a chance to do their own evaluation prior to any "deal" being struck.. It really is common sense..

While I am largely in agreement with most.. I too, would want a replacement unit.. but the fact is.. I really doubt that will happen.. I hope it does.. but, I'm not holding my breath..

Based on my experience with WBGO's service center.. I would have to think when Newmar gets their hands on the unit, they will be able to return it back to the OP in better condition than when he got it.. Those factory guys (WBGO, Entegra, Newmar, Thor etc) really know their stuff.. luckily, it was fresh water (filtered ?), I would think that has to help...

I will reiterate.. I hope nothing but positive karma towards the OP and HOPE once this ordeal is behind him, he is, as they say... a Happy Camper !!!

[palehorse89]

Sad state of affair's is a understatement for sure! No matter what Coach it is or the cost........it is worked for, hard earned money! 9 days for a representative from Newmar to show up is bad! Not only for Mike and his wife, but a not so good reflection on them. I would be upset also. As far as the repairs that are needed.....one would think the factory would be the best place? I am not sure if I would want it at this point? This makes me sick to my stomach and its not mine! I feel really bad for the both of you! and hope the inspection and repairs that are needed are done in a proper fashion and timely manor which I am sure they will be. I think, just for the customers peace of mind, the proper thing for Newmar to do here is return it to its "Birth Place" where a Reincarnation could properly happen. The customer service people, for any manufacture have to first think.......what would make the customer rest at ease the best........? And just one option offered is not the best way in my mind! Maybe things will change after the inspection................as the clock ticks............
Again Mike, truly a sad and unfortunate thing to happen
Best of luck!

[TwelveVolt]

With all due respect to the seriousness of the OP's situation, it is somewhat entertaining to play
Spot the Newmar Rep - Home Edition.

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

With all due respect to the seriousness of the OP's situation, it is somewhat entertaining to play
Spot the Newmar Rep - Home Edition.

WHAT???

[PBG]

Question: How would everyone expect this to be handled if the delivery would have been done by a Dealer and not the Factory? Because it was directly from the factory, do we have the expectation the quality control is better than a unit that was delivered and inspected by a dealer?

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by PBG

Question: How would everyone expect this to be handled if the delivery would have been done by a Dealer and not the Factory? Because it was directly from the factory, do we have the expectation the quality control is better than a unit that was delivered and inspected by a dealer?

This is/was a unexpected water line failure, right after taking possession and on the way back home with it. What if it did not happen for 5 years? It does not matter where this unit was delivered. If anyone of us had just wrote this check, back to the factory would make anyone feel at ease I think? Agree?

[Ted E]

Originally Posted by PBG

Question: How would everyone expect this to be handled if the delivery would have been done by a Dealer and not the Factory? Because it was directly from the factory, do we have the expectation the quality control is better than a unit that was delivered and inspected by a dealer?

Higher expectation directly from the Factory. No looky loos through it or salesman messing around with it. Personaly I would not agree to have this coach back after repairs, even with a lifetime transferable warranty.

[the_vfox]

I agree with take it back as the others have said. There are so many issues with water intrusion, I wouldn't want to tackle it.

Since it's brand new, Newmar should make you whole, nothing else would do.

[imgoin4it]

I totally agree with what most (everyone) has said Newmar needing to step up to the plate and make the owner whole again. But there is a lesson here everyone. I know of three people who have had similiar situations with leaking water damage. One dumped 100 gallons of water into theirs while they were away for the day. They replaced their coach about a year later. The other i do not know details. However the third one ie me. My wife and I were both in our coach watching TV when ours leaked without our knowledge. Wife found it when she "waded into the bath room". We had full hook ups at Newmar. None of the three I know of happened while under warranty so everyone was on their own to fix. The water in ours swelled up the Wood plank floor (not real wood) and to make everything match again we had to replace all the flooring in the bath and galley area. Ended up changing the entire front flooring to the tune of $4000. We maybe leaked 10 gallons, not 50 or 100. We now shut off the water every time we leave the coach and have water dog alarms in the bath and kitchen area for when we are in the coach. They are available in ACE hardware stores for about $20 or so each. A friend says it is not IF IT LEAKS it is WHEN IT LEAKS. There is a lesson here for everyone.

[lanerd]

After I had a similar situation, we now only use the fresh water tank and pump, and only turn on the pump whenever we need water. Once parked, I fill the fresh water tank and then turn off the park's faucet and turn the handle on the coach to the tank.

This way, there is ONLY pressure on the water system when the pump is running. When we are finished with what ever water is needed, we turn off the pump and then closed the valve to the sink or toilet to relieve the pressure.

Overkill? Probably, but I'll never have this type of flooding problem again.

Fortunately, we have on/off switches at all three sinks and both toilets.

Like others, I sympathize with your dilemma and hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

Ron