Expert Advice Requested: New 2015 King Aire flooded with 50 gallons of water

[Clayobx]

Originally Posted by 99phantoms

In Sep '13 I went thru both the Entegra & Newmar factories. I noticed:

Entegra uses traditional ¾” plywood for the subfloor, front to back. (grade B/C?) Walls & cabinets are screwed directly to the plywood flooring, then tile laid around the cabinets & walls. The wall base plates (horizontal bottom of wall that attaches to the flooring) are made of rectangular aluminum tubing. The walls are attached to the floors using long (10”?) lag bolts, which go up through the steel chassis frame, through the 2x4 studs & plywood flooring, and through the wall base plates.

Newmar uses ¾” OSB plywood for the flooring, front to back. They tile the floor, front to back. Walls & cabinets are set atop the tile. Their wall base plate is a piece of aluminum “C" channel, open end up, that is screwed to the OSB flooring using sheet metal screws.

A better arrangement for any RV floor might be ½” plywood sealed against water, then topped with ½” mortar board, then the tile.

If indeed this is SOP for Newmar and Entegra it doesn't take a well versed engineer to differentiate the superior construction. Hearing this from an actual observer certainly would give me greater concerns regarding long term issues than "just" electronics. Makes one go hummmm? Thanks for the insight!

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by 99phantoms

In Sep '13 I went thru both the Entegra & Newmar factories. I noticed:

Entegra uses traditional ¾” plywood for the subfloor, front to back. (grade B/C?) Walls & cabinets are screwed directly to the plywood flooring, then tile laid around the cabinets & walls. The wall base plates (horizontal bottom of wall that attaches to the flooring) are made of rectangular aluminum tubing. The walls are attached to the floors using long (10”?) lag bolts, which go up through the steel chassis frame, through the 2x4 studs & plywood flooring, and through the wall base plates.

Newmar uses ¾” OSB plywood for the flooring, front to back. They tile the floor, front to back. Walls & cabinets are set atop the tile. Their wall base plate is a piece of aluminum “C" channel, open end up, that is screwed to the OSB flooring using sheet metal screws.

A better arrangement for any RV floor might be ½” plywood sealed against water, then topped with ½” mortar board, then the tile.

As long as the tile and grout sheet with screw holes maintains its integrity, it would seem that the Newmar solution is more waterproof. Water can get to the plywood along every wall edge on the Entegra. So how did the water get to the insulation in the basement ceiling? Through plumbing and electrical cut-outs?

[99phantoms]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

As long as the tile and grout sheet with screw holes maintains its integrity, it would seem that the Newmar solution is more waterproof. Water can get to the plywood along every wall edge on the Entegra. So how did the water get to the insulation in the basement ceiling? Through plumbing and electrical cut-outs?

Newmar's floor is one big sheet of tile. You're thinking that method is more waterproof? Remember from post #1 what the OP said:

"The ceilings in the bays were sagging with the with soaking weight of the water in the insulation behind the black tarp holding it up."

If I were engineering the floors, I'd do as previously stated: waterproof the wood floor, then cover with mortar board. I'd plan to have the inevitable water leak & put drip pans under the kitchen & bathroom lavs (like your house's water heater) with water alarms and/or drains to the outside.

The potential water damage to the flooring, etc., requires rigorous precaution.

[zman62]

Originally Posted by 99phantoms

Newmar's floor is one big sheet of tile. You're thinking that method is more waterproof? Remember from post #1 what the OP said:

"The ceilings in the bays were sagging with the with soaking weight of the water in the insulation behind the black tarp holding it up."

If I were engineering the floors, I'd do as previously stated: waterproof the wood floor, then cover with mortar board. I'd plan to have the inevitable water leak & put drip pans under the kitchen & bathroom lavs (like your house's water heater) with water alarms and/or drains to the outside.

The potential water damage to the flooring, etc., requires rigorous precaution.

I think it is more waterproof. By tiling the whole floor and the grout is sealed it is like a shower stall. Water should not be able to go through the tile/grout. I would expect the water got to the basement through the holes in the floor. With Entegra they tile only what you see so it leaves big open areas that are very venerable to water

[99phantoms]

Originally Posted by zman62

I think it is more waterproof. By tiling the whole floor and the grout is sealed it is like a shower stall. Water should not be able to go through the tile/grout. I would expect the water got to the basement through the holes in the floor. With Entegra they tile only what you see so it leaves big open areas that are very venerable to water

I can see that.

How 'bout waterproof holes in the floor (under the cabinets) & a drip pan in the ceiling of the basement draining harmlessly to the outside?

[DSL417]

Originally Posted by zman62

I think it is more waterproof. By tiling the whole floor and the grout is sealed it is like a shower stall. Water should not be able to go through the tile/grout. I would expect the water got to the basement through the holes in the floor. With Entegra they tile only what you see so it leaves big open areas that are very venerable to water

Evidently not waterproof...the water went through to the basement. That said, probably would have as well with the Entegra.

I would say that I'm more comfortable with walls bolted through the floor to the undercarriage (Entegra), as opposed to screw through the wood into the aluminum channel that I saw at Newmar, but this thread is a water problem thread...and both seem to work... so checkmate.

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by 99phantoms

I can see that.

How 'bout waterproof holes in the floor (under the cabinets) & a drip pan in the ceiling of the basement draining harmlessly to the outside?

A 1/2 inch hole with a tight fitting PEX down through the basement and out would probably be easier. One under each water area (toilet, vanity, kitchen, fridge). All other through holes should have a dam, perhaps an inch or two of PVC pipe.

If you build it, they will come. If you design it well, they will bring others.

[PDR John]

There isn't a coach builder, that has slides, that could hold water in the house portion. You can't make waterproof moving parts at a reasonable price.

It would be even harder on any coach using HWH slides with moving floors. That means all Prevost, Newell and Foretravel.

You would have to make the full underside of each cabinet be a "sink" with a drain. Nobody does it, because the market won't pay for it.

[johnsadventure]

I hope that you are headed back to the factory. Trust no one but go to the factory. If you are waiting DON'T. GO TO THE FACTORY. if you choose not to go you will regret it many times over. Plus if you sell it you must disclose the water leak and you will loose big money.
GO TO THE FACTORY.

[harleyjt]

....You would have to make the full underside of each cabinet be a "sink" with a drain. Nobody does it, because the market won't pay for it.

And there ladies and gentlemen is the truth of the matter. Everything boils down to dollars and cents, especially in a competitive environment. Most people will go to the least costly choice. And, I guarantee, that if everyone were mandated to build them that way, there would be hundreds of naysayers, complaining about the additional cost for something that so rarely happens.
jt

[fla tom]

Originally Posted by zman62

I think it is more waterproof. By tiling the whole floor and the grout is sealed it is like a shower stall. Water should not be able to go through the tile/grout. I would expect the water got to the basement through the holes in the floor. With Entegra they tile only what you see so it leaves big open areas that are very venerable to water

I would have to disagree residential showers have a edpm rubber barrier at the base of the shower because rhe grout is porus and definitely not water proof. Also residential sub flooring (at least in florida) are either concrete or plywood not osb

[DSL417]

By the way, Entegras are grouted where the wood in the cabinetry meets the tile. Does that make them any more or less susceptible...probably not. I think trying to differentiate any coach as better or worse for this type of issue Mike experienced is rather futile. 50 gallons of water on the floor is likely to go lots of places besides out the door when you apply the brakes...just sayin'

[nforus]

Originally Posted by DSL417

By the way, Entegras are grouted where the wood in the cabinetry meets the tile. Does that make them any more or less susceptible...probably not. I think trying to differentiate any coach as better or worse for this type of issue Mike experienced is rather futile. 50 gallons of water on the floor is likely to go lots of places besides out the door when you apply the brakes...just sayin'

I think you're spot on with those comments. Nobody wants to see a fellow RV'R go through the events that Mike has seen.

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by PDR John

You would have to make the full underside of each cabinet be a "sink" with a drain. Nobody does it, because the market won't pay for it.

Two minutes with a caulking gun and you have a sink under each cabinet. If there had been a drain to the outside in this "sink", how much of the 50 gallons would have just disappeared without bothering anything?