Feb 2013 Build Date---REDBARON73 DSDP

["007"]

Any results yet to problem?

[redbaron73]

Yesterday I picked the coach up, and they had not touched the slide yet. I suggested they move coach to level ground To see what the slide does. Once on level ground and then leveled, the gaps looked much better. Moved slide in and out and it is normal.

There is more gap at back top of slide but I suspect it is within tolerance.

While waiting there I ran the dash cam video on my computer and observed the service tech opening the slide where the coach was sitting last week and without leveling.

I am confident that the problem was caused by running the slide out unlevel.

I confronted them about it, and they agreed they did do that but stand by the fact that newmar says it doesn't matter.

So we have gone full circle. Newmar is paying for the damage. I have declined to have anything done to the slide to adjust until I have had the problem myself under perfect conditions.

I did start another thread with a "new condition" that I noticed with the kitchen slide. I think I am just paranoid at this point.

Oh one other thing the dashcam captured: lots of demos of my air level system. Wish they had leveled before running the slide since they obviously figured that out!

["007"]

Thanks for the update, I think someone with FWS's or everyone together tell Newmar the coach needs to be level or you and Steve have the results.
Newmar can do anything they want to slides on their floors, there all level.
FWS's are heavy slides and may even have a refrigerator on it that slide will track sideways unleveled.

[FLSteve]

Ok … with all these postings and pictures, I now gotta go check mine for my own curiosity. So today I am going to put all my slides in, start and move it and then do a “level 2 forensic inspection”.

I am almost scared of what I might find!

Steve

["007"]

Keep the coach level or are you going to try unleveled.

[redbaron73]

Thought I would put some more of my modifications up. I have been working on installing the ME-BMK in my coach. If you are not familiar, this is a Battery monitor kit that acts like a fuel gauge for the battery bank. It is a far more reliable way to determine state of charge (SOC).

You can read about it here: ME-BMK Battery Monitor Kit


I attempted to get Newmar to install this as a special, and was told no. Well it turns out that there is good reason for it, and the upgrade is very involved with the 2013 Newmar coaches.

The typical installation of a BMK is to install the battery shunt between the load and battery ground, install the ME-BMK-NS device. Provide 12v power to BMK-NS, connect the network to the inverter, and install a sense cable between the BMK-NS and the shunt.

The 2013 Newmar coaches come with the Magnum ME2812 inverter, the ME-AGS-N (auto genstart network version) and the RC-50 remote.

For the features of the BMK, you need the ARC-50.

This is the easiest part to swap out, remove 4 screws, unplug RC-50, Plug in ARC50 and install 4 screws. At this point you must reprogram all of your settings. Do this now, as it will not be setup for your battery type.

[redbaron73]

After installing the ARC50, then I installed the shunt. There are 2 ground bundles connected to the coach. Mine is the all electric, with factory AGM batteries. So I have 8 6v Batteries. From the factory there was a main 0-gauge ground going to the inverter, and then a bundle of about 8 smaller wires going to the main electric panel. These were connected at different points on the battery. For the BMK to do its job properly you need to move all ground wires leaving the battery to the load side of the shunt.

In the above picture you will see the shunt installed below the two positive wires. The back side is the load side, and the original wiring from Newmar is attached there. You will see two cables coming off the stud. I had to cut a lot of straps, and then reconfigure the straps so there was no metal rub and the tray could still slide. This wasn't hard, but took some thought.


The front side of the shunt is where the battery connects. I made a custom 0 gauge wire, and soldered the ends instead of crimping. Lots of solder..and then shrink wrap the ends to make it look neat.

The above picture shows the battery tray extended, and the bottom right ground is my cable connecting the battery to the shunt. Just to the left is the temp sensor for the inverter, this came stock.

The BMK-NS module is installed in the bay closest to the battery, as the sense cable can not be cut or spliced. Right now the path to get between the two is terrible, and I will not drive the coach until I can find a better path or a way to protect the cable.



On the back wall is the black box with the power connection, data cable, and sense cable. This is a temporary install, as I am not sure how to get the sense cable cleanly to the battery. I will update once I have done so. If anyone has ideas I am all open.

I ran the power inside wire loom all the way to the back of the coach where I have made a splice into the freezer power. Seemed the best place to get my power for this and my TPMS repeater.

[redbaron73]

So after getting it all hooked up, I tested and things worked great. my SOC read accurate, I was able to drain it down to 80% and have it shutdown the inverter. Plug in power, and it charges back to 100%.

So then I decided to test AGS. I set the AGS to start at 80% and stop at 90%. Watched it drain down (helped with microwave) and once it hit 80% the generator fired off. After the 60 sec warm up it stopped. Then started again, and this loop kept going.

Frustrated - I double checked everything. In the mean time I had to stop my work, and take the coach to the dealer to get some work done. That was hard..I hate leaving work undone.

When I finally got the coach back I started playing with the settings and discovered that if the ME-BMK-NS is plugged in (either power or network) then the AGS will not function. Even turning it to manual run via the ARC50, it will do the cycle. I could start the generator with the dash switch, my software switch, or from the generator itself, but not from the ARC50.

If I unplug the ME-BMK-NS then it works from the ARC50, but of course now I can't use SOC to start.

I placed a call to tech support at Magnum Energy, and after 50 minutes of diagnosis the culprit was found.

The 2013 Newmar coaches include a Power Control Systems EMS. The inverter actually connects into the Power Control module, and then the remote connects to another port on the Power control module.

Here is the diagram and install docs:
http://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com/...structions.pdf

In the mid toilet room, there is a cabinet with all the breakers. This box houses the PCS control.


This picture shows the box removed. Lighting was poor because I had no 12V or 120V...that would have been dangerous.


3 telephone connections are behind. I had to locate the one with black tape (matches cable connected to magnum inverter remote port) and the one with blue tape labeled "remote", which matches the cable going into the ARC-50.

Once these were located, I unplugged, and connected them together with a telephone joiner.

As soon as that was complete, and I fired it all up, things worked as I expected.

[redbaron73]

So my next step was to contact Precision Circuits and find out what I could do to make the BMK compatible, and what I was losing by doing the bypass.

I sent an email, and the response was very fast and informative.

Here is the response:

By bypassing the PCS system will cause you to lose two things.
If you normally plug into 50A service, then this should not be a problem. If you regularly plug into 30A service, then you may want to consider updated the system.

What you lose when PCS is not communicating:
If RV is drawing more current than the Main Circuit Breaker can supply, then PCS first attempts
1. Battery Charge Reduction, (temporarily reducing Battery Charging rather than shedding a load)
2. Inverter Assist, (temporarily allowing Inverter to produce 120V power to run the appliances that are wired to it, like the Microwave)

PCS will continue to operate, and will shed the Appliances, and continue to prevent circuit breaker tripping.

Most people choose to bypass

If you choose to upgrade, you would have to send in the PCS Monitor and PCS Control. We would be willing to upgrade free of charge, and could ship back to you within 24 hours of receipt.

Just emailed with Magnum, and they state the ME-ARC50 already has the upgrade,

The PCS Control is inside the Circuit Breaker Panel.
It is the Control where you plug in the Magnum Remote and Magnum Inverter data cables.
00-10020-500
00-10020-300
http://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com/...structions.pdf
About 1 to 2 hour job to replace if you have never done one.

PCS Monitor is the Central Monitor Panel
00-10019-000

[redbaron73]

I plan on doing the upgrade just because I hate to not have a feature. I will post an update once that has been done.

[redbaron73]

I just received another email from PCS. Their support is amazing!

They have sent me an upgrade document that outlines the complete install steps, and also gives info on what is gained. The biggest gain I can see is the communications is no longer done 'man in the middle', but rather part of the RS-485 bus. So instead of being a relay, it now assigns itself an ID on the network, and takes action that way.

There are a few new features, including the ability to set to 15amp service (30->20->15->30) and the removal of the blinking panel LED light.

Taken from document:

Additional PCS Features included in new Version:
1. PCS Central Monitor Panel
a. Displays error message during loss of communications with PCS Control rather
than appearing to be running.
b. Displays message when PCS Control is busy communicating with Windows
WinPCS program. (Requires Power Cycle to reset.)
c. When No Service present, does not keep bouncing or forcing back to this
screen; allows troubleshooting of other conditions.
d. Unplugging and re-plugging Monitor during error condition does not mask the
error. (Error message regenerates.)
e. Installation without Magnum Inverter-Assist feature now displays correctly.
2. RV Data Mismatch error will no longer lock up system, but PCS will continue to
retry in cases of poor connections or low battery.
a. During an RV Data Mismatch, Control will continue to operate with RV Data it
has stored, rather than stopping all operation.
b. This error condition will no longer stop Magnum Remote/Inverter
communications.
3. Force RV Data from Remote to Control.
a. If Control has been mis-programmed at the factory with the wrong RV Data it no
longer needs to be replaced. Only a new Monitor needs to be shipped to Dealer
to reprogram system.
4. Clearing RV Data in Monitor to restore to Blank condition.
a. Monitor can be restore to original Blank condition, without the need for Windows
software, or the need to send back to Precision Circuits.
6. PCS Control slows down the Load to Load turn on delay.
a. When turning back on loads, wait 5 seconds from one to another load, to assist
Generator recovery when heavy loads are turned on.
7. Add one more Service Type 15amps
a. Now It will step 30amps -> 20amps -> 15amps ->30 amps
8. Remove Central Monitor Panel blinking LED
a. Customers complaining during night
9. Delay Generator Run Signal, so that if Generator is wired to Engine battery, starting
RV engine will not cause PCS to lose Gen Run signal.
10.Turning Inverter Off at Magnum Remote, still allows manual override of Inverter-
Assist Feature, and Battery Charge Reduction Feature.
11.Allowing Inverter-Assist when in Absorb Charge Mode. Previously Inverter-Assist
would only operate in Float Charge Mode. Note: If Low Battery Cut Out threshold
reached, then Float Charge Mode is required.

["007"]

Great write up RED but you lost me which is not to hard these days.
Is this some thing that is a upgrade for your use or is it something that Newmar may add in future on these coach's?
I would add to QT's # 3 post #90 on if it would be of use to members.
Not sure I have added your thread there yet, will check.
Between all your buddies and yourself you do provide some good reading if only I could understand, but you wiz kids sure are having fun.
I do understand but I am near the end of the trail in more ways than one.

I have added your thread with your buddies so add too the threads any future fresh business for preservation.

[joes2901]

Red Barron, you mentioned a 0 gage wire for ground to the 2,8KW inverter, is the positive cable the same size? I am amazed that Newmar would use such small cables since the inverter can draw over 350 Amps when the battery voltage is low (below 12 volts). How many AH in the battery bank that Newmar provides with the all electric coach.

I replaced my converter with a Magum MS2812 inverter/charger, ARC50, BMK, and AGS and cannot believe that a 2013 Dutch Star would not be equipped with all these parts that work nicely with the power management system. And, the use of single 0 cables instead of 0000 cables seems to me substandard. I used only 0000 cables to all battery to MS2812 connections.

I hope that soon a third party makes the Magnum system able to talk to an owners laptop versus requiring a landline for access to their computer servers. I use Outback's solar controller because it can communicate with my laptop.

I notice that the MS2812 reduces the battery charge rate when not plugged into a 50 Amp circuit and there is a high power draw. I leave the inverter on and hope the PMS drops the MS2812 as the first load when on 30 amps or less power or generator power because the inverter can then keep the microwave and other devices on its circuits running for short periods of time in 110 degree heat with both AC's running, etc.

[FLSteve]

redbaron73 ... now that is what I call a modification!

I have read it twice so far and now need to sleep on it and come back tomorrow and read a few more times. The pictures really help. It sounds like the PCS people really have their act together as to support.

Look forward to reading and learning more about it and all the other stuff you have done.

Steve