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lonfu · 06-06-2021, 06:30 AM

So, 2001 DSDP 3852, removed the stickers already. The basement doors, front cap and rear cap/bumper clear coat is flaking off like a perfect butter croissant. Have to repaint. Planning on using Ful-Cryl 11 by nason single stage, 2 part with hardener, and will change to color. Been 10 years since I've done any body work on fiberglass. Could use some reminders... if you know what I mean. So, far looks like the paint will stick to the old clear coat if I remove the wax and sand it with 320 so on the good doors, so all is well. but on the croissant flaky clear coat doors and caps not so easy. Problem with DA sander is that it hits the aluminum frame around the door edge. So, hit it with dry 220grit 1/3 sheet orbital sander, then wet 320grit. Seems that that to get the edges of the old clear coat to disappear have to go with the 220 grit, 320 just won't make the go away. Ok, memory question??? in some places, not uncommon, the white gel coat shows through the color coat. Will my paint stick to the gel coat???? Painting with chysler black enamel, no clear coat, so color coverage is not a problem. I paint well enough that I won't have to color sand it. I've done 2 stage repairs before, 10 years ago on other coaches but never seen such bado clear coat like on my new to me newmar (2018). In the past I've used primer when I went over bare metal or bondo repairs but not had to use it over sanded painted surfaces. Sanded gel coat and clear coat are new to me. Should I expect adhesion problems from the single stage paint to the gelcoat or clear coat???? Couldn't find anything on the net about this??? Has anyone painted directly over the clear coat that is in good condition with success????

lonfu · 06-06-2021, 06:43 AM

some history, I'm the 3rd owner. It has been stored outside up until 2 years ago then stored inside, no UV exposure. There was some small CC peel on the rear bumper before I moved it inside. The doors have started since stored inside. No peel on passenger side, but suspect that the doors have been replaced and repainted. Which is good news that the clear coat is in much better condition and will hold the new paint. coach now has 48k miles on it.

arcaguy · 06-06-2021, 06:58 AM

It seems to me that since the clear coat is having adhesion issues it might be best to remove it completely before you repaint. You might also want to check with a paint supplier who supplies corvette shops or boat yards about the paint adhering to the gel coat. Good luck.

Ken C · 06-06-2021, 06:23 PM

It's been many years since I was in the automotive painting business so take my info for what it is worth. I would have no problem painting over prior paint/clear coat that was well adhered and properly prepared. I would not paint over bare gel coat without proper prep and applying primer prior to the application of the color coat.

tom chelbana · 06-07-2021, 12:05 AM

For 24 years we have keep our Newmar's outside with no covers. The answer for us here in the southwest is 303 twice a year. All 3 of our coaches ( 2LA and Essex) have never had anything like the clear coat problem you photos show. 303 takes about a hour after washing or even better with the new Touchless Sealant which is what we are using now on our 18 LA. Really simple to use and quick.
Newmar Man

lonfu · 06-08-2021, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom chelbana

For 24 years we have keep our Newmar's outside with no covers. The answer for us here in the southwest is 303 twice a year. All 3 of our coaches ( 2LA and Essex) have never had anything like the clear coat problem you photos show. 303 takes about a hour after washing or even better with the new Touchless Sealant which is what we are using now on our 18 LA. Really simple to use and quick.
Newmar Man

hahaaaa... and the election wasn't tampered with.... tried the 303, didn't make and diff except my wallet was lighter...

The one suggestion that I've heard from several old painters is that the base coat was allowed to dry before applying the clear coat as the cause of the peeling. Common mistake with early assembly line painting. to make the clear coat stick to the base coat must be re-sanded once it gets to a certain dryness. Re-sanding is not something that gets done on the assembly line. Both the clear coat and base coat materials are good, just improperly installed. I've noticed that one side of the coach has no peeling issues, suspect that is the side where they started painting with the clear coat first. When they got to the 2nd side the base coat had over dried and hence the problems.

One of the reasons it is suggested that 320 grit is the final sand level before painting is to give the surface "teeth".

But thanks for the sales pitch..... what you put on the paint does not prevent it from peeling. In fact, you should not have to "wax" clear coat at all.

It is a 2 part or catalyzed paint so should not oxidize if correctly installed. But... don't tell anyone this as there is an entire wax industry based on "your car needs a wax job".

I'm going to try to switch to urethane paint to see if it will stay on the Gel coat a bit better. Have read it is more durable than the acrylics but a little tougher to paint with due to it runs a bit easier. Any one with experience with this?? suggestions??

"007" · 06-08-2021, 01:46 PM

Well this is a interesting thread about paints and the clear coat problems people always seam to be having, will watch for more info and find someplace to move it.

lonfu no never had a black hose brake but did have a sewer pipe release from a floor flange into the black tank because they never glued it, now that was fun while traveling in Canada.

ponytl · 06-09-2021, 05:39 AM

I think the first thing i'd do is find out what the original paint was from Newmar, always nice to know what you are going over and is it ok to go over it with what you have planned? I would almost assume (but don't) in 2018 it was a water based product, but i would think a high build sandable primer would fill the voids/ cracks, eastwood has a pretty good one that has great reviews, like you already know paint prep is 90% of a good result... do it right or do it twice is what many old painters are preached to me... good luck with your project and post pics

lonfu · 06-09-2021, 07:00 AM

So, when I'm repainting a wood project, most times after the first coat I sand to remove any fiber that has been lifted and take out any imperfections. then 2 more coats. In the past I primed automotive finishes to make the imperfections show so I can repair them. The paint sticking to a surface is usually not a problem. Urethane sticks directly to metal, doesn't need a primer. The door is flat and has no repairs, just sanding. Like painting over oak, I like the wood grain to show through so I rarely use primer. If I do use primer, I thin it... and my wood grains show through.

I"m not planning on color sanding the urethane so whatever finish comes out of the gun is what I get... If it was new metal, new gel coat or damaged panel that I had repaired I would prime it and sand it, but this has plenty of paint on it already and no repairs. That said, I have a 3" rock gash on another door with good clear coat. I'll repair the gash, prime it, sand it then prime and sand a 2nd time to prep for paint. Again, the primer shows any imperfections in the repair, hides the filler transition line and smooths any large scratches in the body filler. I could paint right over the repair but I know it would show the transition line between the body filler and gel coat.

In 41 years of owning moho's, I can say that I've always had to do body repair work to them. a kids handle bars, rocks from passing trucks, catching the rear on a rock, there is always something... I have found that repairing single stage paint is so much faster and easier and I don't mind doing it. Sure it doesn't look like a peacock wet coat, but it is covered with paint, shiney and all the same color. Due to the size of the coach imperfections are almost invisible.

It is windy right now here, so I can't spray the door. have to wait a couple of days to see the results....

lonfu · 06-09-2021, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponytl

I think the first thing i'd do is find out what the original paint was from Newmar, always nice to know what you are going over and is it ok to go over it with what you have planned? I would almost assume (but don't) in 2018 it was a water based product, but i would think a high build sandable primer would fill the voids/ cracks, eastwood has a pretty good one that has great reviews, like you already know paint prep is 90% of a good result... do it right or do it twice is what many old painters are preached to me... good luck with your project and post pics

well, this is a 2001 model, so it is hard to guess what thinner medium they used. Since most folks that worked there in 01 are retired chances are of getting a painter to talk to are slim.... and now winnie has bought them out...

yes, paint is all about the prep, but then there is over prepping that gets no better results. There really are not any "voids or cracks" they have been filled by the previous paint job. Painting over fresh fiberglass is diff than over fresh gelcoat. with fiber glass you pretty much have to prime due to the oils that come to the surface, Gel coat is a bit diff as it is a catalyst paint/coating. Scratching with some 320 grit should do the trick, but with the old paint still in place in some places is what was worrying me. Will the transition line between the paint and the gel coat show??? I've never tried it before, and that is my question.

The more I read about boat painting, looks like the gelcoat is pretty stable and unless there is a repair, spraying directly on to the gelcoat is pretty safe as long as there is some "tooth" sanding done to it. urethane is a 2 part paint just like gelcoat but the quality of the paint and will it lift is my big question??? Just spraying primer over it does not insure that it will not lift.

lonfu · 06-09-2021, 01:08 PM

yes,.... pix are coming...

6/8 ok, so first new paint rule, don’t fall off the wall!!! Tagged the paint and loaded up one spot. Wiped it down but you know how that goes…. Paint is good paint, went on with no sticky problems, stuck to the old clear coat, the gel coat and the old base coat, no transition lines, no material raises….. But… the mix ratio is crapola, can says 4 to 1 to 1 of reducer. Can is lying, guy at paint shop was not experienced so he was just repeating the label…. So far from the truth …. 4 paint, 1 part cat, 4 part reducer of the med temp reducer. One thin coat, then 2 medium wet coats. Can says 2 medium coats… not true again… trick is in the reducer, getting enough in the paint to get it to flow smooooooth… ran at 30psi at the gun with trigger on. High Teck urethane, with catylist and reducer, good quality paint, but the instructions have been altered for California. For VOC areas it says no reducer at all…. Hahahaaaaa….. well, F me for not thinking about that, if I was a beginner I would blame the paint instead of the instructions…. I know what not enough thinner reducer looks like… Can I say orange peel mixed with avocado!!!! wind came up after I got the first coat on, a little bit of dirt got into the paint but had I put enough reducer into it, it wouldn’t have been a problem….. gonna be color sanding this door… PIA….

lonfu · 06-09-2021, 02:15 PM

Got door painted, here are the pix, feel like dried out dog poo due to 2nd day after covid 2nd shot. all looks good., the door handle I painted separetely because the seals had failed. Done for the day.... no primer... the paint laid out much flatter due to the handle was laying down.

lonfu · 06-09-2021, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonfu

yes,.... pix are coming...

6/8 ok, so first new paint rule, don’t fall off the wall!!! Tagged the paint and loaded up one spot. Wiped it down but you know how that goes…. Paint is good paint, went on with no sticky problems, stuck to the old clear coat, the gel coat and the old base coat, no transition lines, no material raises….. But… the mix ratio is crapola, can says 4 to 1 to 1 of reducer. Can is lying, guy at paint shop was not experienced so he was just repeating the label…. So far from the truth …. 4 paint, 1 part cat, 4 part reducer of the med temp reducer. One thin coat, then 2 medium wet coats. Can says 2 medium coats… not true again… trick is in the reducer, getting enough in the paint to get it to flow smooooooth… ran at 30psi at the gun with trigger on. High Teck urethane, with catylist and reducer, good quality paint, but the instructions have been altered for California. For VOC areas it says no reducer at all…. Hahahaaaaa….. well, F me for not thinking about that, if I was a beginner I would blame the paint instead of the instructions…. I know what not enough thinner reducer looks like… Can I say orange peel mixed with avocado!!!! wind came up after I got the first coat on, a little bit of dirt got into the paint but had I put enough reducer into it, it wouldn’t have been a problem….. gonna be color sanding this door… PIA….

Whoops, wrong date, 6/9...

ponytl · 06-10-2021, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonfu

Whoops, wrong date, 6/9...

I use to paint my dump trucks with the same big airless paint sprayer we painted buildings with, used an industrial enamel for harsh chemical environments (thinned) did them in the early evening with no wind out in the open with the whole area around them wetted down with water mixed with lemon juice (the juice kept bugs away) i'd get a couple good coats on(added a bit of penetrol to the mix to help it flow, and then sprayed a final high ratio thinner coat to make it all blend... I still have one of those trucks 20yrs later and it still looks good... and it has been outside everyday since... I assume you are going to paint the entire beltline of the rv black?