Freightliner or Spartan???

[fyrmn1969]

Newmar Owners!

I am looking for a used (2016-2018) Newmar (LA, ESSX, KA) and am in the process of deciding between Freightliner or Spartan. I would love to hear from owners about their personal experience. Here are a few of the things I am considering in my decision process that I would love to hear about from your perspective.

1. Drivability; stability, driver fatigue, noise
2. Reliability
3. Safety features
3. Function
4. Access to service centers

Please feel free to expand on your experience, these are just a few of the items I am currently considering.

Thanks in advance for your valuable time.

Cheers!

[palehorse89]

Here is a lot of reading for you to look at as this has been a subject of debate for a long time. Used the search bar by google at the top of IRV2 page https://www.google.com/search?q=Frei...earch=irv2.com

[sramer]

This is the age old question of Ford or Chevy. I had a Dutch Star on a Spartan and now a London Aire on a Freightliner. And quite frankly, with the troubles that Spartan owners have had with DEF heads and the terrible front end porpoising I am glad I have a Freightliner.

I just had a friend spend over $3k on his 2020 London Aire to correct the porpoising problem and the people that bought my Dutch Star spent over $1k to fix the problem.

1. Drivability; stability, driver fatigue, noise. MY FREIGHTLINE DRIVES LIKE DREAM
2. Reliability. AFTER THE FIRST YEAR WITH AN ALIGNMENT PROBLEM NO ISSUES
3. Safety features. SAME ON BOTH CHASSISS
3. Function. SAME ON BOTH
4. Access to service centers. MANY MORE FREIGHTLINER SERVICE CENTERS AND MANY OASIS FREIGHTLINER DEALERS HAVING FULL HOOK-UP SO YOU CAN STAY IN YOUR COACH WHEN SERVICING.

[tom chelbana]

We have owned 3 new Newmars starting back to 1997. A Essex and 2 LA, which is our current Newmar, a 2018 LA on a Spartan K-3 605 chassis. Just like the two previous coach we are very pleased with all them. The current LA has to be one of the very best diesel powered coaches which is why all KA have been on Spartan chassis from day one. When we have a issues we can call Spartan and get a very knowledgeable service person to answer our questions or direct us to one of their service centers.
We have been to Alaska and back in our Spartan chassis and after 375K miles of driving would purchase the SPARTAN again and recommend one too.
Newmar Man

[redbaron73]

I personally prefer freightliner when given a choice. They have a strong financial backing and purchase at a volume that greatly exceeds spartan.

The years you mention specifically are the years that spartan has Hadley SLS leveling, and freightliner has Valid.

HADLEY IS JUNK

For that reason alone I would 100% recommend freightliner with Valid.

This is a system that is proactive while driving, and has the option to air level when parked.

The Hadley system has undersized air lines, frequent errors, and numerous compressor issues. It also lacked the supplemental pump for parked leveling on several years.

You cannot replace Hadley with Valid after market, so do yourself a favor and avoid it all together.

In 2019, spartan switched to valid.

[Dutch Star Don]

Originally Posted by fyrmn1969

Newmar Owners!

I am looking for a used (2016-2018) Newmar (LA, ESSX, KA) and am in the process of deciding between Freightliner or Spartan. I would love to hear from owners about their personal experience. Here are a few of the things I am considering in my decision process that I would love to hear about from your perspective.

1. Drivability; stability, driver fatigue, noise
2. Reliability
3. Safety features
3. Function
4. Access to service centers

Please feel free to expand on your experience, these are just a few of the items I am currently considering.

Thanks in advance for your valuable time.

Cheers!

Regarding questions 1-4, you won't be able to tell the difference. Question #5, Freightliner will have more shops throughout the country.

Either chassis will work as well as the other.

[tom chelbana]

When looking at 2015 thru 2017 and maybe some early 2018 FL had a serious problem with the fan drive brackets breaking and have the fan hit the radiator/CAC/AC unit which caused heavy damage. This wasn't a few this was a lot of them. This would be mostly LA but also some Essex coaches. There was a recall and some owners even it happen twice and had their coaches out of service for a month of more. When this happened you wouldn't be driving i for a long time. This problem is behind FL now but there might might be a couple coaches that haven't had the upgraded fan drive brackets installed.
When talking about service locations and how good they are i need to share a experience I had at Colton Truck Terminal in Colton Ca. They area Spartan service center and have for 25 years been the go to location for diesel motor home owners when needing service. This was about 2 years ago and we had our LA in for service and I noticed there was a new LA on a FL chassis there too. I asked Ed the manager why that FL was at there shop since FL had a big service center in Fontana just less then 10 miles down the road. He said they had it at FL twice under warranty and couldn't fix the over heading problem so they were having Colton Truck/RV find a fix the problem.
I am glad that both FL and Spartan are in the chassis business because we owners do better when they compete against each other. We like to buy USA products especially when we think they are better Spartan.
Newmar Man

[fyrmn1969]

Originally Posted by sramer

This is the age old question of Ford or Chevy. I had a Dutch Star on a Spartan and now a London Aire on a Freightliner. And quite frankly, with the troubles that Spartan owners have had with DEF heads and the terrible front end porpoising I am glad I have a Freightliner.

I just had a friend spend over $3k on his 2020 London Aire to correct the porpoising problem and the people that bought my Dutch Star spent over $1k to fix the problem.

1. Drivability; stability, driver fatigue, noise. MY FREIGHTLINE DRIVES LIKE DREAM
2. Reliability. AFTER THE FIRST YEAR WITH AN ALIGNMENT PROBLEM NO ISSUES
3. Safety features. SAME ON BOTH CHASSISS
3. Function. SAME ON BOTH
4. Access to service centers. MANY MORE FREIGHTLINER SERVICE CENTERS AND MANY OASIS FREIGHTLINER DEALERS HAVING FULL HOOK-UP SO YOU CAN STAY IN YOUR COACH WHEN SERVICING.

Good to know about the porpoising and DEF heads problem. I would imagine the DEF head problem is Cummins, which both chassis use. I have some more research to do about the DEF and porpoising...thanks!

[fyrmn1969]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

I personally prefer freightliner when given a choice. They have a strong financial backing and purchase at a volume that greatly exceeds spartan.

The years you mention specifically are the years that spartan has Hadley SLS leveling, and freightliner has Valid.

HADLEY IS JUNK

For that reason alone I would 100% recommend freightliner with Valid.

This is a system that is proactive while driving, and has the option to air level when parked.

The Hadley system has undersized air lines, frequent errors, and numerous compressor issues. It also lacked the supplemental pump for parked leveling on several years.

You cannot replace Hadley with Valid after market, so do yourself a favor and avoid it all together.

In 2019, spartan switched to valid.

Regarding the electronic suspension control self leveling systems, could you provide a few examples why the Hadley system is "Junk" compared to Valid? I appreciate your feedback and will dive into these systems.

[USMCRET]

Originally Posted by fyrmn1969

Good to know about the porpoising and DEF heads problem. I would imagine the DEF head problem is Cummins, which both chassis use. I have some more research to do about the DEF and porpoising...thanks!

FL and Spartan use different DEF heads.

[righellis]

Originally Posted by fyrmn1969

Newmar Owners!

I am looking for a used (2016-2018) Newmar (LA, ESSX, KA) and am in the process of deciding between Freightliner or Spartan. I would love to hear from owners about their personal experience. Here are a few of the things I am considering in my decision process that I would love to hear about from your perspective.

1. Drivability; stability, driver fatigue, noise
2. Reliability
3. Safety features
3. Function
4. Access to service centers

Please feel free to expand on your experience, these are just a few of the items I am currently considering.

Thanks in advance for your valuable time.

Cheers!

We only know Spartan. Had a 2019 Ventana and now a 2022 London Aire.

For your criteria, here is what I have experienced.

1. The K3 with 605 hp is great. Very good ride. Newmar's comfort drive is a big plus but that is on both.

2. Been reliable so far. Had a software recall and Spartan helped with finding a dealership (TransWest) that could do it while we were traveling across the country.

3. Don't know about the safety features in slightly older models, but our 2022 has them all.

4. Function is good once we figured out what everything does.

5. Access is a crap shoot depending on where you are. Some dealerships only work on what they sold as a way of managing workload. We bout through NIRVC and they have been great.

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by fyrmn1969

Regarding the electronic suspension control self leveling systems, could you provide a few examples why the Hadley system is "Junk" compared to Valid? I appreciate your feedback and will dive into these systems.

Besides the mentioned examples, don't know what else to say. I was very specific regarding the differences.

To put it in simple terms: spartan would be better without Hadley and just forgoing air leveling and ride control. The system is under sized and fails to work. There is no fix, and spartan ditched the system in 2019, going with Valid.

Valid works very similar to HWH and actually improves the ride and handling, adding safety and comfort.

[Rd1]

“I am looking for a used (2016-2018) Newmar (LA, ESSX, KA) and am in the process of deciding “

If you are looking at a KADP, they are exclusively on Spartan, so no worries there.

RV industry in general, has some quality control issue and varies from year to year and manufacturer to manufacturer. Thats the unfortunate side, some worst than others.

The spartan proposing has been discussed in these forums and “perhaps” any potential solutions.

OTH, freightliner's 16-19 (maybe 20) had deficient front shocks. They were 48mm and had a tendency to roll on the initial turn in, 'similar' to a gasser, not a good feeling. Freightliner updated those to 60 mm in 19 or 20, I can't recall. Either way, you can updated those to koni and improve that deficiency.

Freightliner's 16-17 had their passive tag axle mounted out of center. There is no provision to center it, however being an steerable axle, it can be manipulated to make it look like centered, however, it does create other issues, which most owners are oblivious due to the comfort drive compensating for the misalignment. If you understand the play between thrust angle and toe setting, you can appreciate how it can be manipulated. If you consider one, you might want to inspect the tag closely. Spartan had same issue with their 14-15 models, but, they recalled it. Freightliner got away with it, at least for now.
They had many other issues with some listed here.

The Hadley system as RB suggest, is not impressive. Not as user friendly nor as responsive. Thats probably why the switched eventually to Valid.

DEF was a mostly spartan issue, however freightliner had DEF head problems as well, though not nearly as much.

As DS Don suggests, the first 4, in “general”, may not be that relevant. Chassis have their own pros and cons and vary from year to year. Maintaining a proper service for a DP is the most relevant. OTH, I think this notion of freightliner having the most service centers is also another misnomer in RV industry. Having more centers is not necessarily an advantage, though, it may make you feel better.

You have to appreciate, mechanical work is grease monkey business. I am not denigrating the profession. I have worked on cars and many other low paying jobs to support my self thru college. However, I do take exception when some one does a lousy job, specially knowingly, be it a mechanic or an exec of a large corp entity. Techs in truck service shops in “general' do not like to work on RVs.

Most RV owners have no concept of what goes on in the service shop and with their unit. They are never in the shop. One of the reasons my last unit ended up on a freightliner was due to having a freightliner shop near my house whom I had know for close to 20 yrs and had the same tech work on my units. I was always present in the unit when they worked. They treated me fairly and did a great job.

So service is very relevant, if you have a place that you know and feel confident in their workmanship. You might want to develop a relationship with a shop near where you stay most of the time. Get to know the service manger and try to find a good tech who works on RVs and you can always ask for the same tech, this I think is a valuable effort for maintaining a DP, so you have a piece of mind when you hit the road.

Last, Newmar has a web site where all the recalls for all the models and for every year is listed. Just make sure the recalls are performed for whatever unit you choose.

[VanK]

I would remind you to check the turning radius of each. My coaches are older but I was disappointed in the larger turning radius on the Spartan compared to the Freightliner.
Van 2008 Newmar 40', no toad