Fresh Water running into black/gray tanks

[RetiredFroggie]

We have a 2017 Ventana LE 3709. We are full-timers and have had a recent event that has us miffed. We are reaching out to all of you for your expert opinions and experiences. We just spent 3 days on the road (no hookups) with 1/2 tank fresh water, and empty gray/black tanks. The water pump light would come on, and we could hear it on, but no water would come out of sinks or toilets. We had to use bottled water. On the 3rd day, I noticed our gray and black water tanks were 3/4 full. We can usually go a week before dumping. The amber light was on the macerator toilet. We hooked up at a park, and saw that even though no water had ever come out of the sinks/toilets, our fresh water tank was now nearly empty. We filled the fresh water tank, and I (the wife) noticed that the macerator toilet was now red, and we had not flushed it since the night before. The gray tank was also reading full. However, the fresh water tank was still nearly empty. So...we believe that when filling the fresh water tank, it is actually going into the gray and black tanks. We do not know why, and have no clue what to do next (other than taking it in for service.) Does anyone out there know if there is a reset button or a simple solution to our problem. I have looked thru the manuals, and can't find anything about this particular problem. The Newgle website hasn't been of any help either. Thank you in advance!!!

[Ljwt330]

First, a disclaimer. I am not a Newmar owner and know nothing about macerator toilets, but I have an understanding of motorhome plumbing systems, in general.


It's not really clear if you have used your Ventana before with no issues and this was a new event, or this was your first outing. Can you clarify?


Regardless, I don't see how your situation could "suddenly" happen. Have you had any work done on the coach prior to this, especially with plumbing? I know of no way the fresh water plumbing is connected directly to the waste plumbing. All water passes through a faucet or toilet, then into the waste tanks. The wild card here is the macerator, but that would not account for filling the grey water tank unless Newmar provides for that in some way.


Are you certain you are turning on the fresh water pump and not the macerator pump? Dumb question, but it has to be asked. That's the only thing I can think of that would both fill the waste tank and not provide water to sink faucets. Otherwise, I'm stumped and a Newmar expert can jump in.

[Dutch Star Don]

This is a mind boggler. There should be no fresh water connection to the black tank, so the water has to be going through the toilets. You also say you hear the pump running. The only thing I can think of.....you have a macerator toilet running and leaking.

One other thought....I have a hose, connected to my shore water supply, inside the bay, that runs to the black tank flush. I have a valve on it, that keeps it shut off until needed. If you have something like that and your pump has a check valve issue, it could be pumping water into the tank.

From what you say, it sounds like you're leaving the pump on all the time. Try keeping it off until you figure this out.

[RetiredFroggie]

thank you for your comments. I will probably call Newmar tomorrow. We have been full-timers in this Coach for a year, and have never had this problem before. A year ago, a Newmar dealer put a new water pump and the controller in, and we never had any problems until this past weekend. However, about 2 weeks ago, while rinsing the black tank, my husband forgot about the rinse water on, and it overflowed into our kitchen sinks, counters, and into the drawers and 3 outside bay bins. We spent a day mopping up and drying his mess. Now thinking about it, maybe this has something to do with the new problem.

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

This is a mind boggler. There should be no fresh water connection to the black tank, so the water has to be going through the toilets. You also say you hear the pump running. The only thing I can think of.....you have a macerator toilet running and leaking.

One other thought....I have a hose, connected to my shore water supply, inside the bay, that runs to the black tank flush. I have a valve on it, that keeps it shut off until needed. If you have something like that and your pump has a check valve issue, it could be pumping water into the tank.

From what you say, it sounds like you're leaving the pump on all the time. Try keeping it off until you figure this out.

Don, this is a question out of curiosity. I think what you suggest makes sense, but how does any explanation account for filling of both the grey and black tanks? That's what I cannot figure out.


I hope the OP gets back soon as this is a real puzzle, IMO.


Edit: The OP posted while I was typing and it appears that the waste tank clean valve may be the issue. Does Newmar also provide a clean out for the grey tank?



This is what caught my eye, from the OP's last post, "about 2 weeks ago, while rinsing the black tank, my husband forgot about the rinse water on, and it overflowed into our kitchen sinks, counters, and into the drawers and 3 outside bay bins. We spent a day mopping up and drying his mess. Now thinking about it, maybe this has something to do with the new problem."


It sounds like Newmar has a rinse valve for the grey tank as well, otherwise it could not overflow into the sink. If so, I suspect the valve for rinsing was left open and the pump is circulating water directly into the holding tanks.

[dxg0001]

I would not expect their Ventana having a Gray Tank Rinse. Ours doesn't. This is indeed very curious.

[Ricci]

Hi - I am somewhat baffled by the story as so many of your symptoms don't seem to line up. However if the black tank was overfilled by leaving the rinse turned on with the valve closed (that would not back up into sinks, but rather the toilet) the bay where the electrical wiring for many of your issues you list is contained. Water in that area can make the levels gauges go erratic and cause the pump controller to malfunction.
So are you sure that the tank levels are reading correctly? Or are you just reporting what the panel reads out?

The water inlet valve on the macerator toilet can fail to close properly and if the seal on the toilet leaks then it can leak water into the black tank but that doesn't answer the reported issue with the grey tank.


Tom

[Qwert66]

If both dump valves are open or leaking and no sewer hose hooked up that could explain why both are filling. I would look for a leaking toilet if you see no water evidence in the sinks, showers.

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by RetiredFroggie

We have a 2017 Ventana LE 3709. We are full-timers and have had a recent event that has us miffed. We are reaching out to all of you for your expert opinions and experiences. We just spent 3 days on the road (no hookups) with 1/2 tank fresh water, and empty gray/black tanks. The water pump light would come on, and we could hear it on, but no water would come out of sinks or toilets. We had to use bottled water. On the 3rd day, I noticed our gray and black water tanks were 3/4 full. We can usually go a week before dumping. The amber light was on the macerator toilet. We hooked up at a park, and saw that even though no water had ever come out of the sinks/toilets, our fresh water tank was now nearly empty. We filled the fresh water tank, and I (the wife) noticed that the macerator toilet was now red, and we had not flushed it since the night before. The gray tank was also reading full. However, the fresh water tank was still nearly empty. So...we believe that when filling the fresh water tank, it is actually going into the gray and black tanks. We do not know why, and have no clue what to do next (other than taking it in for service.) Does anyone out there know if there is a reset button or a simple solution to our problem. I have looked thru the manuals, and can't find anything about this particular problem. The Newgle website hasn't been of any help either. Thank you in advance!!!

If my memory serves me correctly, there has been discussion about some floor plans that have gray water going to the black tank, is it possible that something was left running?
2nd theory is your tank gauges may be misreading and levels were not as you expected
3rd theory u mistakenly connected to the tank rinse instead of the fresh water
4th theory, I’m wrong on all accounts, disregard [emoji6]

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by Qwert66

If both dump valves are open or leaking and no sewer hose hooked up that could explain why both are filling. I would look for a leaking toilet if you see no water evidence in the sinks, showers.

Absent a grey water flush, this makes the most sense, given the described situation^^. It certainly would be noted by the OP, however, if he ever tried to connect the sewer hose to dump his tanks as the gush of foul water would overwhelm him. Haven't heard about that, but we haven't heard back from the OP since the post mentioning the flushing of the tanks either.


I'm very curious to find out the root of this problem.

[Stuart W]

Numbers :
Fresh 1/2 40-50 gallons
Grey 3/4. 45 gallons?
Black 3/4 30 gallons?
Something doesn’t add up

[hohenwald48]

I have a third, after market, bayonet lug attached slide valve on the end of my black/gray tank drain pipe. If I left that closed and opened both the gray and blank tank valves I could get the symptoms described by the OP.

The only other way I can think that the gray and black systems could be cross connected is if they share a vent line somewhere.

I have seen some installations where a sink or shower drains into the black tank instead of the gray tank. Don't know if the Ventana might have that.

Then you still need a way for the fresh tank to empty into the gray or black tank.

That's a lot of what if's and a bucket full of coincidences.

[RetiredFroggie]

You guys are great! So many questions. Sorry I didn't get back sooner but been out sightseeing all day. As far as I know the rinse is only for the black tank, not the gray in my Ventana. I do know that the tank sensors do go haywire, and we have had trouble a couple of times in the past, but nothing in the last year or so. Yesterday, my husband was filling the fresh water tank (or thought he was), and no he did not use the black water rinse. We had just pulled into the park, and hadn't even hooked up the dump hose or rinse hose. As he was "filling" the fresh water tank, I watched the sensors of the gray tank go from E to 1/3 to 2/3 to full, and the black tank go from 1/3 (rarely ever reads E) to 2/3 to Full (and red light on macerator toilet came on). I could hear water going somewhere and told my husband to turn the water off. We then looked at the water tank and it was still nearly empty. So we dumped the Black and Gray, and they were both definitely full (it took longer than usual to dump them). And Ricci, I am concerned that the overflow a couple of weeks ago may have damaged some wiring.

It is too hot here in Phoenix this afternoon. Tomorrow AM, we will try and fill the fresh water again, and see what happens...then we will call Newmar. Sadly, probably another service trip but glad to have all of you out there for suggestions. I will let you know tomorrow after our experiment. Thanks!!

[PaulTNaples]

You stated that the water pump was replaced. Was any other work done since that event? It sounds like someone may mixed up some of the plumbing when they disconnected it for access during a repair.