Community Forums

georgeaz · 09-30-2018, 06:05 PM

I know many folks have encountered stubborn air leaks. I was hoping to get some advice on what might be leaking.

Background:
2017 London Aire (Spartan K3)

I noticed that there was a big differential in pressure between the front and rear tank. The rear tank was low by about 40psi when the coach was sitting. I also started to notice that the front of the coach was dropping by about 4-5 inches over night.

I called Spartan and told them the issue and they said to take it into a Spartan service facility. I took it to a very good one locally. They were pretty busy but got me in. The shop spent about a week finding various air leaks and even replaced the air dryer. They indicated that while they fixed some of the leaks, it was still leaking. They kind of ran out of time as they fit me in and the process of finding all the air leaks was time consuming. I got the coach back and air leveled it then turned off the coach. About 5 min later I noticed that the front/rear arrows were blinking on the air level system indicating that front or rear had dropped. I checked my Levelmate Pro and noticed that the front dropped about 4-5 inches. I then turned on the ignition and the front tank was exactly spot on at 139psi, but the rear tank dropped to 85psi. In 5 minutes!!

I will call Spartan to see how they want to proceed, but I am frustrated that it couldn't be found after a about a week in the shop.

My question is if others have seen the rear tank (or system) with such a big leak? If so, any suggestions on what it might be?

What does the rear air tank supply vs the front? Do they supply air to different systems on the coach?

Any help on where to start looking could be helpful.

Thanks!

George

RJOL · 09-30-2018, 06:29 PM

Your unit is a lot newer than mine, but here is what I have found out about mine. I have a very slow leak from air 2. It will bleed down over several days to about 50-60 psi. Air 1 seems to be fine. Air 1 feeds the rear brake system and I've been told that if it totally losses air pressure it will lock the brakes and you can't move the coach. Air 2 feeds the front brakes. I have not been able to confirm the results if it was to totally loose air or not be able to keep it filled adequately. I assume yours is still in warranty, so you only good option is to take it back in and let them find the problem. Your leak is a lot more than the one I am experiencing...

flyboy013 · 09-30-2018, 07:17 PM

The gauge for "Rear Air" is for the primary tank and supplies air for the rear air brakes (and Safe Haul ping tank if you have that). The gauge for the "Front Air" is the secondary tank. It provides air for the front brakes, air suspension, and the tag steering. I assume you have the Hadley air suspension.

First off, my 2018 K3 (MADP) had the front and rear gauges wired backwards so you need to confirm if your leak is really in the primary or secondary system. If you pull the green lanyard it will release air from the primary tank. You should notice a decrease in pressure on the "Rear Air" gauge.

I had a few air leaks on my coach. The first had to do with the coach leaning to one side after sitting overnight. The problem was solved with the replacement of the Hadley Air Manifold. The manifold was replace due to some ride height issues that I was having, but it apparently was leaking from there.

When I had the coach at the Spartan factory a few weeks ago, they found air leaks at the air dryer regeneration value which they replaced the air dryer to resolve. They also found an air leak at the inversion value which was replaced.

georgeaz · 09-30-2018, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyboy013

The gauge for "Rear Air" is for the primary tank and supplies air for the rear air brakes (and Safe Haul ping tank if you have that). The gauge for the "Front Air" is the secondary tank. It provides air for the front brakes, air suspension, and the tag steering. I assume you have the Hadley air suspension.

First off, my 2018 K3 (MADP) had the front and rear gauges wired backwards so you need to confirm if your leak is really in the primary or secondary system. If you pull the green lanyard it will release air from the primary tank. You should notice a decrease in pressure on the "Rear Air" gauge.

I had a few air leaks on my coach. The first had to do with the coach leaning to one side after sitting overnight. The problem was solved with the replacement of the Hadley Air Manifold. The manifold was replace due to some ride height issues that I was having, but it apparently was leaking from there.

When I had the coach at the Spartan factory a few weeks ago, they found air leaks at the air dryer regeneration value which they replaced the air dryer to resolve. They also found an air leak at the inversion value which was replaced.

Thanks for the reply. It did cross my mind if the tanks were not wired correctly to the dash.

Where would I find the green lanyard?

They did replace the air dryer as it had a problem. Unfortunately, it wasn't the only leak.

Thanks,

G

flyboy013 · 09-30-2018, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeaz

Thanks for the reply. It did cross my mind if the tanks were not wired correctly to the dash.

Where would I find the green lanyard?

They did replace the air dryer as it had a problem. Unfortunately, it wasn't the only leak.

Thanks,

G

In the front door side wheel well there are three lanyards. Silver for the wet tank, green for the primary tank, and red for the secondary tank.

Here a post that has a picture. http://www.irv2.com/forums/f25/air-t...ml#post4068163

You should be draining the moister from these tanks at least once a week (some say more often).

palehorse89 · 09-30-2018, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyboy013

In the front door side wheel well there are three lanyards. Silver for the wet tank, green for the primary tank, and red for the secondary tank.

Here a post that has a picture. http://www.irv2.com/forums/f25/air-t...ml#post4068163

You should be draining the moister from these tanks at least once a week (some say more often).

Even with all the Auto moisture ejector's on all the tank's?

georgeaz · 09-30-2018, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyboy013

In the front door side wheel well there are three lanyards. Silver for the wet tank, green for the primary tank, and red for the secondary tank.

Here a post that has a picture. http://www.irv2.com/forums/f25/air-t...ml#post4068163

You should be draining the moister from these tanks at least once a week (some say more often).

Ah - Ok. I know where these are. I will check it out. I assumed the air dryer took care of the moisture. Didn't realize I had to be purging these. Newmar didn't mention that one when I went through their FPU.

G

flyboy013 · 09-30-2018, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palehorse89

Even with all the Auto moisture ejector's on all the tank's?

YES. Spartan made that very clear during the owners training that I completed a few weeks back. When they inspected my coach I had water in all three tanks. I was under the impression that the ejection was automatic and I didn’t need to worry about it. Wrong.

georgeaz · 09-30-2018, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyboy013

YES. Spartan made that very clear during the owners training that I completed a few weeks back. When they inspected my coach I had water in all three tanks. I was under the impression that the ejection was automatic and I didn’t need to worry about it. Wrong.

Interesting. I found this link on draining the tanks.

https://www.rvtechlibrary.com/chassis/airdrain.php

Dutch Star Don · 09-30-2018, 11:02 PM

George.....Not really familiar with the Spartan or the air leveling, but you stated that you had the air level system on and checked later to find that it had dropped. My thought.....can you turn the air level system off, and just let the coach sit on the bags. If it doesn't drop, could it be the air leveling system components that need a closer look?

gpounder · 09-30-2018, 11:31 PM

Its been a while since I operated a bus with air brakes but I do remember some leaking is okay, 2 psi a minute I think.

If you can spray all fittings with soapy water to find leaks. Sometimes you can hear them.

flyboy013 · 10-01-2018, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeaz

I then turned on the ignition and the front tank was exactly spot on at 139psi, but the rear tank dropped to 85psi. In 5 minutes!!

One other thing ... each time you turn the ignition key to the on position (even without starting) the tag steering gets pressurized which uses up 7-8 psi of air from the secondary tank. This should cause a drop of pressure on the “Front Air” gauge, thus you should not be getting a reading of 139 psi for the front gauge. This tells me that the front and rear gauges are wired up backwards. I’m by no means an expert here, but given the similarity to my own problems and what I learned in Spartan’s class, I believe this to be accurate.

tnedator · 10-01-2018, 07:46 AM

What is "normal" for air leaking when turned off. Let's say you drive and park it and walk away.

How quickly does air leak out under "normal" leaking?

How many days should it take to get to the 65 PSI low air point?

How many days should it take to get to 40 PSI?

10 fan · 10-01-2018, 08:28 AM

My right side was leaning after 5 days so I called Spartan because I couldn't figure out the connection between right side front and rear air bags. They told me if it lasts 2 days it is within spec. After further inspection I realized the right front was leaking out and not the right rear. This caused the rear to lean because there is only one self leveling valve and both rear bags are tied together. I used windex to spray all connections and could not find a leak. This has only happened twice so it may be one of those intermittent problems that are hard to find.