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Old 06-10-2023, 11:50 AM   #1
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Generator stopped after running for 2 and half days.

Don't know if it's one thing causing problems or if several at once. Woke up this morning with the generator stopped. I had no power to any 110 outlets. The new chassis batteries were to low to attempt to restart the generator or to start the engine. Had to jump the chassis batteries for over a hour to get the engine to start. On my magnum management system the red fault light was on and the screen said low battery. After starting the engine the red fault light stayed on as well as the screen saying low batteries. Fortunately I was only about an hour from home camping.. As soon as I plugged into my 50 amp service at home everything went back to normal. The magnum said absorb charging on the screen. My 110 outlets and refrigerator were up and running. Sorry for the long post. Haven't been able to determine what caused the stop of the generator. When you aren't running the generator or plugged in to shore is it common for the chassis batteries to drain along with house batteries? This is the second weekend in a row I have had this happen. Appreciate the help.
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Old 06-10-2023, 01:01 PM   #2
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When running the generator what was your house and chassis battery voltage? Iím wondering if the house and/or chassis batteries were not getting charged while the generator was running. Assuming you had power to non-inverter outlets or equipment (ie HVAC), this would imply an issue with you charge and/or change bridge.

The generator requires 12V power to start. Not sure if it requires a continued external 12V power source to keep running. If so, and chassis batteries were not charging, it would explain the low chassis battery voltage and the generator cutting off.
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Old 06-10-2023, 01:16 PM   #3
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Did you have your generator running when you went to sleep? What level was your diesel fuel? Did you have your AGS set to stop generator at a given time? After you go home & plugged into shore power & batteries were recharged were you able to start generator?

Happy Trails
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Old 06-10-2023, 02:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
When running the generator what was your house and chassis battery voltage? Iím wondering if the house and/or chassis batteries were not getting charged while the generator was running. Assuming you had power to non-inverter outlets or equipment (ie HVAC), this would imply an issue with you charge and/or change bridge.

The generator requires 12V power to start. Not sure if it requires a continued external 12V power source to keep running. If so, and chassis batteries were not charging, it would explain the low chassis battery voltage and the generator cutting off.
I was asleep when it happened. Every time I had checked during the last 2 days it was saying float charging. We had the coffee pot set for 6 and we got up about 7:30. The coffee was made so say the generator was off for an hour or so. In that time the chassis batteries drained enough so it would not turn the engine over. I don't know how to check the chassis batteries other than turn the switch on or with a meter at the batteries. So I don't check them.
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Old 06-10-2023, 02:52 PM   #5
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Did you have your generator running when you went to sleep? What level was your diesel fuel? Did you have your AGS set to stop generator at a given time? After you go home & plugged into shore power & batteries were recharged were you able to start generator?



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Gen started after being plugged into shore power.
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Old 06-10-2023, 04:06 PM   #6
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Just a guess:

Maybe a short inside your Salesman-Battery Disconnect Solenoid? ...Or a short in your BIRD or Trik-L, which is more likely. These battery combiner relays join/connect the start battery with the house battery, but only when your Saleman switch by the front door is "on."

I'm thinking this maybe one cause that explains your problem, based on what I think you said: That you found your house and chassis batteries below 11.8V when everything turned off; and only a short somewhere would cause that rapid drain.

If so, and you discover it's your BIRD or Trik-L relay (IDK what you have), I would yank this relay out and install a KeyLine VSR (battery combiner) to keep both battery banks changed.

This Keyline VSR works great and it is not switched on or off. Just install 1 positive battery cable and forget about it. The VSR has cut-in and cut-out relays inside, which I think is a far better and far more reliable way of combining your 2 battery banks. Works great with solar installed too.

Buy it on Amazon for $90

But maybe something else is going on? ...Your situation sounds like a short related problem to drain so many amps so fast.

Another thought: What sort of EMS power management board does your coach have? Is it an Intellitec Powerline 620?
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Old 06-10-2023, 04:28 PM   #7
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Your generator runs from the chassis battery. It uses power to run and that power needs to be replaced from your inverter/charger thru the bi-directional isolation solenoid. It's not, so your chassis battery died. The generator does not charge any batteries.

Probably a big boy solenoid that can be opened up so the contacts can be cleaned.
Look for a large solenoid with large battery cables on both sides.
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Old 06-10-2023, 04:33 PM   #8
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The norm is; when on generator the DC converter gets 120v ac from the generator and charges the house batteries. How ever you are set up the chassis may or my not get charged. Charging the chassis batteries should follow what ever it does when on shore power. If it charged it should charge if it does not it will not charge

You should test it. I assume they are lead acid batteries?? Disconnect shore power after about 1/2 hour use a volt meter and take a reading across the house batteries. Start the generator and after few minutes for the generator to cycle up. Take another reading across the house batteries. You should expect a voltage increase. Your first reading should be between 12.7 and 13.2. The second reading with the gen on should be between 13.4 and 14.5.

If you don't see an increase your DC converter is not getting 120v ac from the generator.
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Old 06-10-2023, 05:29 PM   #9
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This is my set up. A BIRD system. I replaced the big white Rogers solenoid probably 4 years ago. Would have to look back on my records to get exact replacement date. So what I'm understanding is if the inverter isn't charging, the gen will draw down the chassis batteries. The issue is the white Rogers solenoid?Click image for larger version

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Old 06-10-2023, 05:53 PM   #10
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Most likely.

Easy test, on shore power both sides of the white Rodgers should show house battery voltage.

If not, push and hold boost switch and check again. Not the same, likely bad internal contacts. Should be able to open it up and file them clean.
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Old 06-10-2023, 06:53 PM   #11
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Cheap seats rant: Those BIRDS got'a go. If it's not failing now it will soon.

I.e., you got more to gain by yanking the BIRD and going with a KeyLine VSR now; and rule the BIRD as the cause or ruling it out.

Internal, sporatic shorts or leakage to ground inside your Trombetta or Battery Disconnect Solenoids are hard to pin point.

The OP said it all went down. The generator is fine. It only quite when the battery voltage dropped.

If you all are right, and we are talking about the engine battery voltage going below 12V or 11.8ish, then it's the BIRD not charging or shorting out. I would think it's the latter, but maybe not.

Most RV of this size use about 60-70AHdc per day so after 2 plus days this would also drain the house batteries if nothing was charging them.

The problem I have is why the house batteries would also be drained if the inverter/charger was working.

OP: Did you say you found both your engine and your house batteries drained or just your engine battery when your system died?
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Old 06-10-2023, 07:15 PM   #12
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Cheap seats rant: Those BIRDS got'a go. If it's not failing now it will soon.



I.e., you got more to gain by yanking the BIRD and going with a KeyLine VSR now; and rule the BIRD as the cause or ruling it out.



Internal, sporatic shorts or leakage to ground inside your Trombetta or Battery Disconnect Solenoids are hard to pin point.



The OP said it all went down. The generator is fine. It only quite when the battery voltage dropped.



If you all are right, and we are talking about the engine battery voltage going below 12V or 11.8ish, then it's the BIRD not charging or shorting out. I would think it's the latter, but maybe not.



Most RV of this size use about 60-70AHdc per day so after 2 plus days this would also drain the house batteries if nothing was charging them.



The problem I have is why the house batteries would also be drained if the inverter/charger was working.



OP: Did you say you found both your engine and your house batteries drained or just your engine battery when your system died?
OK, question, how long have you had this device, what's it's track record ?

Point# 1 It claims to handle 140 Amps. You know that's not enough to boost start a large engine with low batteries. It may burn out.

Point# 2, It doesn't even have have a boost circuit, so how do you address that ?

Point# 3, The BIRD has a logic controller that prevents the chassis battery from being overcharged while on shore power for weeks at a time. This doesn't even have a way to switch it off.

I see that the sell a 300 amp kit but that still leaves you sitting with a dead or overcharged battery.
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Old 06-10-2023, 08:02 PM   #13
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twinboat: Well, let me explain it like this:

The goal is to arrive at your boondock-camp spot with full 100% charge on those house batteries so you do not have to run your generator until your house batteries drop to ~11.9V or 40-50% SOC.

To accomplish this, you can very easily connect the Keyline VSR (or knockoff device) by running 1 positive cable from the VSR post to your house battery... and a 2nd positive cable from the VSR to the Chassis-Engine Battery. It is very easy. Just be sure the cables are long enough to extend your battery slideout trays.

So, I am saying I was able to easily mount the Keyline on the left side of my battery compartment (wall).

Problem solved.

For a technical explanation, I will refer you to the KeyLine website:

https://www.keylinechargers.com/prod...-artic-cat-etc

I would describe it like this: The Keyline is both a battery isolator and a battery combiner.

Blue Sea has the marine market and KeyLine penetrated the RV market, but let their patent go about 5 years ago, so now there are cheaper devices, probably made by the same Chinese company, but you can't know if they use the same quality components as KeyLine does. Anyway, over the years the Keyline VSR price dropped from about $150 to $90.

This VSR is not smart. It is just has internal relays that Cut-in and Cut-out at certain voltages. I.e., when one battery drops too low the circuit open and that keeps one battery back from draining the other. And it's not controlled by a key switch or your Battery Disconnect Solenoid (aka Salesman switch by the front door.)

So, this VSR works to charge both batteries whenever the alternator is running or when your solar charge controller is active.

I have found this device works flawlessly for over 7 years. I had one in my previous RV and now I have one my current RV. I wouldn't live without it!

And with so many posts, like this one, every time I read about battery short problems, 9 times out of 10 it is the BIRD or Trik-L; and the Amp-A is just a bigger brother to the Trik-L. So, this is why I say: "Yank these out and start using a VSR."

https://www.keylinechargers.com/prod...-artic-cat-etc

Amazon $94 (with battery cables): https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Battery-.../dp/B00WTAFR5W

No need to install a resettable fuse either! Just direct wire it. (I used left over solar 10 gauge cable.) However, I have a diesel and everything is in the back. Also, my engine and house battery banks are stacked one on top of the other.

Remember, you just connect positive-to-positive. No negative cable is required since both the engine and house batteries shard a common chassis ground.

==== NEXT TIP ===

Stop using your antiquated charger in your Inverter/Charger and buy a Victron AC-DC 17A or 25A charger to be your primary charger -- and turn off your charger inside your coach. (It will still work for when you need overnight charging, but otherwise it's junk!) And if you are wondering why your house batteries are not lasting more than 2 seasons, IMO, I would bet it's your Inverter/Charger that is "cooking" your FLAs!

Once installed the Victron, I not only have bluetooth monitoring on my cell phone, I also only add about 1/2" of water every season; and now my FLA-House Batteries are lasting 5+ years!

Moreover, when you put your RV in storage, you don't want to leave your Salesman Switch "on" for your BIRD to work. And with the Victron you just run an outside extension cord to it and you are done! Which is another perfect solution to maintaining your house and your engine battery -- with the KeyLine VSR?Combiner.

Note: I mounted the Victron AC-DC in my bedroom and you just plug it in when you have shore power. And when you put your RV in storage, you just unplug and pass the Victron power cord outside. (I have a tip-out window so it's easy and quick.)

Here's the link:
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ.../dp/B07TJK3X71
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Old 06-10-2023, 08:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2004Horizon View Post
Cheap seats rant: Those BIRDS got'a go. If it's not failing now it will soon.



I.e., you got more to gain by yanking the BIRD and going with a KeyLine VSR now; and rule the BIRD as the cause or ruling it out.



Internal, sporatic shorts or leakage to ground inside your Trombetta or Battery Disconnect Solenoids are hard to pin point.



The OP said it all went down. The generator is fine. It only quite when the battery voltage dropped.



If you all are right, and we are talking about the engine battery voltage going below 12V or 11.8ish, then it's the BIRD not charging or shorting out. I would think it's the latter, but maybe not.



Most RV of this size use about 60-70AHdc per day so after 2 plus days this would also drain the house batteries if nothing was charging them.



The problem I have is why the house batteries would also be drained if the inverter/charger was working.



OP: Did you say you found both your engine and your house batteries drained or just your engine battery when your system died?
The engine batteries for sure. There was a red fault light on the magnum and the screen said low battery. I checked the battery button where I check the black, gray and fresh water levels. It said 3/4 with all red lights but 1. Not sure how reliable it is.
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