Girard Awnings retract on their own Update

[judgebobk]

Update on Girard awning Newmar Factory repair. I'm told only 2019 Dutch Stars have this problem.

For a little background, our awnings were coming in on their own whenever they wanted. They did this with no corresponding event to cause them to close. I tried to eliminate every possible cause such as RF and EMI etc. with no success.

After two days at the factory, for the second time, to solve the problem, Girard was not responding so Newmar Service Director Ken Miller got involved and would you believe Girard who previously said they would not throw parts at the problem was sending and experimental unit that would power the unit through the controller. Newmar could not however get the motion sensors to work and because we could not spend any more time at the factory, we decided to have Girard sent a tech to the California desert in January when we were there. We would have to unplug the controllers when travelling because the ignition lock out was no longer working. OK it was only a few weeks to manage the new arrangement.

On to Tennessee only to find out that the outside window shades no longer work along with the drivers overhead cabinet light and our door awning was now out.

Apparently in changing the wiring, all these functions were disconnected.

I guess I'll be back on the phone to Newmar Monday Morning to see what they disconnected that's causing this issue.

These functions are controlled by F18 fuse in the the half bath which no longer has a wire running to it. I can probably power it all back up if I knew what F 4 fuse powered besides the awning light.

[R.Wold]

What a hassle. This and a lot of other recent posts about wonky high tech automated gadgetry has me looking at older coaches again. With everything multiplexed its about impossible for the end user to work on this stuff anymore. Id like to own my next coach 10 years or more and thats a lot of time after warranty for things to malfunction.

[Dutch Star Don]

It's funny, F18 has a 7.5 amp fuse for the awning and F4 is a 20 amp fuse for the porch light. You're right, it must be powering something else.

Since you'll be in the area, why don't you go directly to the factory in San Clemente. We went there to get ours adjusted and they were great to work with.

[judgebobk]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

It's funny, F18 has a 7.5 amp fuse for the awning and F4 is a 20 amp fuse for the porch light. You're right, it must be powering something else.

Since you'll be in the area, why don't you go directly to the factory in San Clemente. We went there to get ours adjusted and they were great to work with.

This is the third attempt so I figure they can come to us this time.

[Winepress]

It’s not a problem isolated to the 2019 year. I’ve posted numerous times about our 2018 awnings. I spent three days at Camp Girard working with Chuck and their enginering team. Is was baffling to Girard that it only happens with the 4369 and only a few units.
I will cut to the chase and tell you that on my DS is was a Newmar issue in the way that they provide the 12 volt to the sensors. Start on the roof where the wires go to the awnings. You need to move and separate the the 120 volt wires away from the 12 volt wires. That along with a filter solved the issue and it fixed my possessed awnings. If you want more info just let me know and I will share all the steps we took at Girard.

Here is my background info...

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/2018...ed-378693.html

[judgebobk]

Thank you for your comment. I would very much know how they did the modifications.

[Winepress]

This is what we did at Girard. We isolated the wind sensors (actually accelerometers) and provided a separate 12 volt power supply to the sensors. They went on the roof and opened up the junction area where the Newmar wiring meets the Girard wiring. Connected a seperate 12v source. By the way, the wiring in the roof at this junction is just as messy and dis-organized as the rest of Newmar's wiring. Once the sensor wiring was isolated the problem went away. I wanted to make sure of this, so I spent an extra day at the factory. Then we re-connected to the Newmar wiring and the problem re-occurred that evening.


To fix we did two things, first we separated the 120 volts wires as much as we could and I added a filter at the fuse block in the bath. Then we replaced the wires that run through the awning arms just because it was easy to do at that point.

Put it all back together and resealed the roof, problem has not re-occurred since, six months ago.

I use the word "we" because I did a lot of the testing and a lot of theory time with their engineering department. At the end of this they wanted to hire me. I will also add that this is a Newmar issue with their wiring methods. This junction area is right above the main 120 volt panel in the bath on the 4369 Dutch Star. We concluded that the 12 volt sensor wiring was picking up interference from the 120 volt lines. Why is happens to some and not others is dependent on how the wiring is laid out in the roof area. Most of the time, it is not a problem.

I will know for sure when we go back to the desert in January for a couple of months.

[YELLOWROSE63]

We have a 2019-4369 DS with this problem of awnings retracting for no reason. Thank goodness they don’t extend on their own. So, when you have a fix would you post it? Or if your fix did make them work properly. TIA

[Winepress]

Originally Posted by YELLOWROSE63

We have a 2019-4369 DS with this problem of awnings retracting for no reason. Thank goodness they don’t extend on their own. So, when you have a fix would you post it? Or if your fix did make them work properly. TIA

They are now working properly. I believe the line filter did the trick. In the half bath there are a lot of DC wires intermixed with AC wires. The sensors receive their power from this 12 volt bus area. I conclude that there was a lot of noise on the line causing the wind sensors to trigger.

[1982]

Yup, bad practice to have them in close proximity. Found this in a on-line electrical code manual:

"No raceway or compartment of a multiple-channel raceway shall contain conductors that are connected
to different power or distribution transformers or other different sources of voltage, except where the
conductors
(a) are separated by the metal armour or metal sheath of cable assemblies of the types listed in Table 19;
(b) are separated by a barrier of sheet steel not less than 1.34 mm (No. 16 MSG) thick"

[Canuck53]

Originally Posted by Winepress

They are now working properly. I believe the line filter did the trick. In the half bath there are a lot of DC wires intermixed with AC wires. The sensors receive their power from this 12 volt bus area. I conclude that there was a lot of noise on the line causing the wind sensors to trigger.
Attachment 271297

Is this a noise filter and what part number is the filter? Thanks

[Winepress]

Originally Posted by 1982

Yup, bad practice to have them in close proximity. Found this in a on-line electrical code manual:



"No raceway or compartment of a multiple-channel raceway shall contain conductors that are connected

to different power or distribution transformers or other different sources of voltage, except where the

conductors

(a) are separated by the metal armour or metal sheath of cable assemblies of the types listed in Table 19;

(b) are separated by a barrier of sheet steel not less than 1.34 mm (No. 16 MSG) thick"

Apparently Nappanee is unaware.

[Winepress]

Originally Posted by Canuck53

Is this a noise filter and what part number is the filter? Thanks

https://www.amazon.com/Axxess-AX-ANR...8103887&sr=8-1

[Canuck53]

Originally Posted by Winepress

https://www.amazon.com/Axxess-AX-ANR...8103887&sr=8-1

Thanks