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Old 09-14-2020, 08:32 AM   #15
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Thanks for the response LK23

I wouldn't care where the vents were if I saw two of them, but I only see one. To me that means they engineered it different from the drawing or omitted it. I just want to figure out which. I will sent the request again today.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:25 AM   #16
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Received and e-mail from Newmar this AM. They sent me a drawing that they thought was the correct one for my coach. Turns out it is the exact drawing they sent me earlier this year and I have been working off. I gave them as much info about the drawing when I submitted my inquiry so they could determine which drawing I had. There does not seem to be a means to attach files on an original inquiry. Anyway I did attach the drawing I had as well as a picture of the roof that they requested on the return e-mail. At least some progress. I will keep the forum updated.
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:23 PM   #17
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Received response from Newmar

Here is the latest response I received from Newmar.

“Good morning David,
I did hear back from our engineering department. *They said, on a few different units, yours included, they tie the gray and black tank* vents together inside, above the flood line, and use only one vent through the roof.* I wasn’t aware they did this so, thank you for sending the pictures and bringing this to my attention, as I learned something through this process.”

Here is my response back to Newmar.


“Hey Jeff;

Hope you had a few good days off. Thanks for getting back to me. It would be nice to know where they tied the vents together. Is there ever a document of any kind created to show the deviation from the approved drawing? I mean there is a drawing telling the manufacturing folks how to build something there should be something in writing that shows them how to deviate. Sorry about continuing the conversation but my background is from Silicon Valley where we were all ISO certified. It would be really nice to know for future trouble shooting? Is there anything in my specific serial number file or would engineering know where they would tie them together. This happened over 3 years ago so I doubt anyone really has a recollection of a few different units.

Again, thank for the assistance.”



“One more thing Jeff;

Is it possible if my sink and shower traps ever dry out (due to long storage periods I live in Arizona) that black tank odors might come back up through the drains?”

End of my response

I doubt any type of drawing exists. I would really like to find that connection point and figured it was worth a try to put a little pressure on them. Someone should be able to say "well, if we did it we did it this way" For all I know engineering said, tell the pest we tired them together and get rid of him.

I take it above the flood line means that it was tied together above any point that feeds the black tank? I think odors can still get back in if my traps dry up.

It is what it is......
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:00 PM   #18
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Any chance they installed a "cheater vent"? I would expect it would be at the end of that line, by the kitchen sink.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:14 PM   #19
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Any chance they installed a "cheater vent"? I would expect it would be at the end of that line, by the kitchen sink.
Now the more I think about it, there should still be an outside vent to allow the 'gas' to escape as the tank fills and looking at your plumbing schematic, there is a "check vent"(11E) installed.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:33 PM   #20
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Yes to the check vent

As per the drawing the check vent is present and located per the drawing. In reality the grey vent shown does not show how it terminates. One just takes it for granted it should vent as the black tank vents, and most tanks vent, on the roof.

Here is a reply I just received to my last set of questions:

"David,
They did check for any drawings and didn’t have any.* The RV industry is light years behind the automobile industry, especially regarding codes, regulations and required prints.* More than likely the two vents connect under the floor, inside the black vinyl wrap that holds all the insulation in place, prior to going up behind the pantry.* I don’t think you would get any black tank smell when the p-traps dry out but, you would most certainly get some gray tank smell, which can sometimes be worse in my opinion."

So, I have a bit more info and when we go out at the end of October I will look for the tie-in point. Truth is maybe I don't want to know that the tank is NOT vented. Ignorance is bliss.**

There really is not much room inside the vinyl wrap and the plywood floor, but maybe they created a pocket. The investigation will continue. Isn't this fun?
*
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:47 PM   #21
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Might be the time to invest in an endoscope and search down the known vent. When you come to a junction, run some water to determine which it is.
For then to say "The RV industry is light years behind the automobile industry, especially regarding codes, regulations and required prints." is gold and is a keeper!
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Old 09-23-2020, 06:17 PM   #22
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Not understanding.

Hey Oldweb;

Not understanding what running some water will prove. Can you explain? This is the vent we are discussing not the fill source.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:13 AM   #23
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Hey Oldweb;

Not understanding what running some water will prove. Can you explain? This is the vent we are discussing not the fill source.
You were told that maybe they tied the two 'vents' together. So if the endoscope goes down and you come to a junction, run water in the sink. If you see the water flowing in the pipe, you have the grey vent (point 3A on the schem.). If you see no water running at a junction, then that would be the black vent with the junction tied to the grey line (for its vent)... just no water should flow to the black (from the sink). If the endoscope ends in the poop... well there is no connection (#3A). That is my thought.
EDIT: Unless the black line comes over to the grey.... that junction may not have water flowing. Then you may have to go deeper.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:53 AM   #24
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Endoscope

With the 'scope, you may also be able to do inspections of the bottom wrap, past the insulation and only have to make a small puncture.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:31 AM   #25
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Still not getting it

I just don't get why I would see water at the junction for the AIR VENT pipe? Isn't the vent meant to release odors and gases out of the tank and into the air? There are many "3A" points on the schematic. If I run water into a sink the water should enter the grey tank at a completely different point on the tank than I would be monitoring.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:50 AM   #26
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If you follow the flow of H2O from the Kitchen sink on your schematic, it eventually will (should) pass by where the bottom of the Vent Grey pipe is located... you would then see the Kitchen sink H2O flow by at the bottom of the vent pipe.
The Grey Vent (according to the schematic) IS NOT plumbed directly into the Grey tank.

Now, if your scope ends up looking at a floating item... then you ended up in the Black tank. There your schematic indicates that the Black Vent goes directly into the tank, no other piping.
This is where you have to visualize that as the 'scope goes down into the vent pipe, if you get to a junction, maybe then they were right and you have the two systems (Grey and Black) tied into one vent, which is good.
Make sense?
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Old 09-24-2020, 03:40 PM   #27
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Maybe clearer

oldWEB;

So, I do understand that if was able to look down the Grey Tank Vent as depicted in the drawing I would indeed see the sink water running.

Perhaps I was not clear in my previous postings. I am 99.9% sure the vent I see on the roof is the black tank vent. I can see the vent exiting directly from the black tank. If I draw a straight line from that point to the roof I end up at that roof vent.

There is NO grey tank vent to look down, so running any grey tank water would not show me anything.

As you suggest looking down the black tank vent and seeing a tie in, I would assume that was the Grey Tank vent tying in. I might do that but first I just want to good look around behind cabinets and see if I can find the connection point. If it is above the flood line it should be above the vinyl Newmar is discussing as there is only a couple of inches between it and the plywood floor and it is all stuffed with batten. So I am thinking it is above the floor. I have cabinets, stove, Pantry and fire place between the sink and black tank vent. I need to look around now that I know what I might be looking for. I also have a closet behind the commode and it seems to me that would be the best spot to tie it in. Easy stuff first.

Does that make sense to you oldWEB?
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Old 09-24-2020, 09:31 PM   #28
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Thanks for all your effort trying to get Newmar to explain the tie-in of the two vents. We purchased our 2017 3401 two years ago from another party. Our roof looks just as yours does, with just the one vent. I believed that vent to be from the black tank and also, not seeing a grey tank vent that the two were tied together. Anyway, we have never had odors inside from either tank.
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