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Old 03-25-2020, 09:46 AM   #1
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House Battery and Silver Leaf Disconnect

Hi all! Just bought my first coach. 2019 Newmar New Aire. Used one but nice. I’ve hit a snag already and need help. Put it in storage for a week. Came back house batts dead. Got it home and hooked up to 50a to 20a dog bone and plugged it in to a house recept. Batteries charging. Breaker keeps blowing in the house though after 30 min or so. Tried setting charger max draw to 15a. Still blew breaker. After several attempts gave up. Now have a 4 bank batt tender hooked up to each daisy chained 6v+6v bank. Seems to be charging. Do we think that’s ok for the system? I did not disconnect the batts from the coach. My storage place has a 20 amp outlet in my unit for that purpose but I won’t know if that breaker cuts out until the batts are dead on my return. What I have not figured out is how to keep the system from trying to draw more than 15-20 amps when connected to 50-20 dogbone. Thoughts?
Additional questions:
1. In the manual it shows the SilverLeaf has a “Disc” button that should disable the house batts. My version does NOT have that button. I DO have a batt disconnect toggle switch on pass console. Is that the same thing?
2. Has anyone ever plumbed their house batteries into a hard disconnect switch? Like the one used for chassis batts. In the manual it says there’s one already in the house batt loop but haven’t found it yet.
3. Thinking about wiring a pig tail directly to the inverter to try to be able to just run an extension cord to it and using that system to keep house batts charged in storage. I had one in yesterday and it powered up the inverter but the fault light kept coming on. In the manual it states a “qualified voltage”. Maybe if it’s not getting 50a it faults. Just hoping to get it to pass through and charge the house batts.
4. My back up plan is to wire in the 4 bank tender and just plug that into the wall when in storage.

Sorry for the super long post. Hard to explain all that briefly. Thanks for any advice!!
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Old 03-25-2020, 11:08 AM   #2
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and the Newmar family.

I'd say you want to avoid changing the wiring to the inverter .
Your current charging method for the batteries should be fine .
I'd concentrate on the amp draw issue; and wait for a newer Newmar owner to chime in.

JMHO. The dash mounted switch for coach battery disconnect , could be tested by ( with shore power disconnected ) have some interior lights on , and flip the switch . Then you can use your add on battery tender when in storage .
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:13 PM   #3
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You may have been overheating your breaker due to a constant high draw, charging very low batteries.

Once you get them charged, the tripping breaker issue may go away.
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:34 PM   #4
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I agree with Skip. Don’t try to rewire your inverter, inverter/charger, or inverter/charger/converter, which ever you have.
Home circuit breaker trips:
There is more current in the home circuit than the breaker allows. Is it a 20 amp or 15 amp breaker? There may be more than just your garage outlet connected to the breaker. What else is anyone’s guess. What else in your home stops working when the breaker trips?
It is possible other appliances in your RV are drawing power. It is unlikely your charger is tripping the breaker. A 20 amp 120 volt outlet provides 2400 watts of power. That is 200 amps at 12v DC. It is highly unlikely your battery charging system is charging at 200 amps even considering conversion losses.
You may have other 120 volt and or 12 volt appliances drawing power. Check for silent things like water heater or electric heaters. Possibly a refrig or AC heat strip. You could just flip off all the circuit breakers except the inverter/charger.
A home or RV refrig may cycle on in about 30 minutes causing the home breaker to trip.
House battery bank goes flat in one week:
This is normal for RV’s and TT’s. My TT took a little more than two weeks. Most systems draw 12 volt power even when factory supplied disconnects are used. In higher end RV’s the energy management systems can get extremely complicated. My simple system has a propane detector and the manufacture apparently does not want it to be turned off for any reason. An alarm sounds if you pull the fuse.
Many owners install a disconnect switch next to the battery bank or disconnect the ground at the battery for storage. Lead/acid flooded cells in excellent condition can be left for 3 months without going flat. AGM’s can be left for 12 months.
I wish you good luck and happy trails ahead.
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:11 PM   #5
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House Battery and Silver Leaf Disconnect

You’re setting the max power draw incorrectly. You are setting the charger max draw but other items are also drawing power.

You need to set the single phase capacity. See photos below. From main screen, select “AC Power”, then “Load Shed”. On the Load Management screen, select “Settings”, then update the “Capacity - Single Phase” to your desired setting (15 or 20 amps based on the circuit capacity. If the fuse still trips, I would go down to 10 amps as there may be other items connected to that circuit.

The Silverleaf system detects if your using a dog bone (leg 1 & 2 are in phase) and will use the signal phase capacity setting to shed various power draws.

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Old 03-25-2020, 01:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
... If the fuse still trips, I would go down to 10 amps as there may be other items connected to that circuit.
I agree with flyboy013... Remember, your refrigerator, basement fridge, video cameras, light switches, and inverter inefficiency all add load to AC power you are drawing from the outlet. I have had success using 12A but you will have to figure out what works for your coach.

What is really surprising to me, is that the Battery Disconnect switch - does not really disconnect all the loads on the DC system. I now have a real disconnect and can fully disconnect the house battery if I want to keep the rig in storage without a power source for an extended amount of time..but its been modified from the original Newmar configuration extensively.

That's why you can never really store these coaches without them being plugged in. If you go to the dealer and see a rig that is not plugged in, I would demand that the dealer throw in new batteries because they have likely killed the batteries on the coach by not keeping it plugged in 24/7.
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:56 PM   #7
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Thanks for the great advice.

2 additional?s.
The genset uses the chassis or house bank to crank? Or both w the charge bridge solenoid diverting power where needed.

If I connect a 50-20 dog one to 20 amp receptacle both banks will charge? Silver leaf will shed load and make it all work? Thanks
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Old 03-25-2020, 05:51 PM   #8
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The generator uses the chassis battery for starting, but if you were to hold the “BATT BOOST” button down to have the charge bridge solenoid connect the chassis and house battery banks, both battery banks would be utilized (just as when starting the engine with a low chassis battery).

Yes, with the 50-20 dog bone Silverleaf would allow both battery banks to be charged, assuming the conditions are right for Silverleaf to engage the charge bridge for charging the chassis battery.

Silverleaf will only shed various systems such as the block heater, oasis AC1/AC2, floor heat, and heat pumps. Silverleaf will not shed power for those item being powered via the inverter (ie. Refrigerator, microwave) or other outlets (ie. washer/Dryer).
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Old 03-25-2020, 08:17 PM   #9
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Fantastic! Thanks again so very much. Working on rigging my 4 wire 30 amp dryer outlet into a dedicated shore power source. If I tell silver leaf it’s a 30 amp breaker it should all be golden. Changing the female side to 50a receptacle to match my power cable. Should get 2 hots at 120 a neutral and ground. The wire size back to breaker is NOT sized for 50a so best I got is 30. If I burn the house down, I can live in my coach. Hahaha. Thanks again.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:50 AM   #10
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If your going to change your 4-wire/30 amp dryer outlet wiring to allow your coach to be plugged in, keep in mind that the dryer is 240V and thus the power source is dual phase as opposed to single. So in order to avoid the coach detecting the dual phase and assuming the default configured 50 amp service, you’ll want to change your Silverleaf dual phase configuration so that it will pull a maximum of 30 amps per leg. This will help avoid tripping your house dryer circuit breaker.

I found a several blog posts on the subject. The one below was pretty straight forward and also references an dryer plug adapter that may be of interest.

https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...40v-dryer-plug

Note: I am not an electrician and would likely defer to experts on this subject.
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Old 03-26-2020, 07:17 AM   #11
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Most of the RV systems use voltage to decide between 50 and 30 amp service. They can't measure amps without putting a full load on the service.

If it detects 0 volts between L1 and L2 it assumes 30 amps.

If it senses 240 volts between the 2 legs, it assumes 50 amp service.

With you supplying 240 volts at 30 amps, it will still assumes 50 amps. I'm not sure you will be able to select 30 amp service under that condition.

Its still plenty of power ( 7200 watts ) but does limit you a bit more then full 50 amp service. ( 12,000 watts ).
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
If it detects 0 volts between L1 and L2 it assumes 30 amps.

If it senses 240 volts between the 2 legs, it assumes 50 amp service.

With you supplying 240 volts at 30 amps, it will still assumes 50 amps. I'm not sure you will be able to select 30 amp service under that condition.


Well it doesn’t actually assume 30 or 50 amps. Silverleaf will use the capacity configured for single phase and dual phase on the Load Setting configuration page. So if the power source is 30 amp 240 volts, The dual phase capacity should be set to 30 amps so that Silverleaf will shed power to systems to stay within the amperage being supplied.
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Old 03-26-2020, 07:34 PM   #13
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Well it doesn’t actually assume 30 or 50 amps. Silverleaf will use the capacity configured for single phase and dual phase on the Load Setting configuration page. So if the power source is 30 amp 240 volts, The dual phase capacity should be set to 30 amps so that Silverleaf will shed power to systems to stay within the amperage being supplied.
Have you plugged into 50 amps and turned it down to 30 amps ?
Just wondering if it has that capacity.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Have you plugged into 50 amps and turned it down to 30 amps ?

I’ve never had the need to change the dual phase capacity to anything other than the current 51 amp setting (not sure why it’s 51 and not 50), but I have changed the single phase capacity setting when I was plugged in to a standard 110 volt outlet while parked in someone’s driveway (thank you BoonDockers Welcome). First I had changed it from normal 30 amp setting down to 20, but kept lowering it to a lesser capacity in order to get the house breaker to stop tripping.
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