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Old 08-04-2022, 10:21 AM   #1
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HWH and Blown fuses

We just purchased a 2022 Dutch Star 4369 from NIVRC in Dallas. It was a consignment Coach with only 1065 miles. During the delivery process attempted to put out the full wall slide and the 150 amp flat fuse let go. No dash, no start, no slide. Tech came over and put a new fuse in and the slide operated, dash operated and it started. Completed the delivery and off I go to the KOA for the night. Pulled in left engine running and stated the slide deployment. It got all the way to letting the slide down to the floor and fuse blew again. NIVRC sent a tech to look at it again. Brought 3 fuses. Put one in and gave me 2 spares. Slide completed deployment. Next morning slide came right in. On my way to my next stop in Louisiana. Stopped and the slide blew the fuse again just at the point of completing deployment. New fuse finished deployment. Next morning came right in no issues. (Didn’t deploy slide on final night). Got back to Florida and called my RV mechanic. He came out the next day. In the meantime I bought a few Blue Sea System 150 amp fuses. Put a meter on the HWH pump motor and saw that it was drawing 200-211 amps on deployment. I had already replaced the fuse with one of the Blue Sea. It didn’t blow. We got Newmar and HWH on the phone and the HWH tech said the 200-215 amp draw was within specs. The fuses are “slow blow” and are meant to take the overage. OK…Newmar wanted the coach taken to a dealer for eval. Stated don’t change to higher amp fuse. Knowing what HWH just said we got off the call and decided to run the system and see what the draws would be in and out, as well as Jack down and leveled. Ran the slides out and in 4 times with out a rest. No issues. Ran the jacks down and leveled the Coach no issues. Same amp draw at the motor. 200-212. Or a 50-60 amp overdraw. No blown fuse. It was obviously bad fuses. They were a no name visible brand. The moral of the story…get a few Blue Sea System flat fuses. They are Marine grade and made to much better standards.
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:05 AM   #2
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Thanks for the info.

I am curious to know if you checked the voltage while checking the current?

Thanks,

Paul
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:13 AM   #3
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I don't know if you're issue will still continue with the excessive amp draw, but here is my theory. I believe Newmar uses good, maybe best components on many items. However, each year they find a cheaper replacement to save a few bucks. Eventually, swapping to those cheaper items cost them or us in the long run. As an example, previous Newmar coaches used latching relays to switch the water pump on and off. Intellitech is probably the best known and best quality brand, however, Newmar used some off brand that failed on many coaches.

The furniture peeling falls into the same arena, use a cheaper fabric and then suffer all the recalls.

I understand that when they save $100 on the build of every coach, it can be a big savings, yet at the same time the price of a Dutch Star has gone up $150K to $200K in just three years. Maybe stay with the better products.
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:27 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by StaRVGazer View Post
Thanks for the info.



I am curious to know if you checked the voltage while checking the current?



Thanks,



Paul


Yes we checked voltage during the cycles. 12.9v at start, 12.6 during the cycle.
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
I don't know if you're issue will still continue with the excessive amp draw, but here is my theory. I believe Newmar uses good, maybe best components on many items. However, each year they find a cheaper replacement to save a few bucks. Eventually, swapping to those cheaper items cost them or us in the long run. As an example, previous Newmar coaches used latching relays to switch the water pump on and off. Intellitech is probably the best known and best quality brand, however, Newmar used some off brand that failed on many coaches.



The furniture peeling falls into the same arena, use a cheaper fabric and then suffer all the recalls.



I understand that when they save $100 on the build of every coach, it can be a big savings, yet at the same time the price of a Dutch Star has gone up $150K to $200K in just three years. Maybe stay with the better products.


The HWH tech said that the 200-215 amp at the pump was nominal and within the specs for the operation of the full wall slide.
I agree with you about trying to maximize supply chains costs across the manufacturing lines. What works in smaller slides or non HWH systems may not work 100% with the HWH systems. I’m always learning something new everyday.
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Old 08-04-2022, 12:25 PM   #6
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Those of us with Spartan chassis see the same issue, but it is a 150amp breaker that trips. It is not as frequent as you described, but happens very often.
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Old 08-04-2022, 12:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron73 View Post
Those of us with Spartan chassis see the same issue, but it is a 150amp breaker that trips. It is not as frequent as you described, but happens very often.
I second this ... here is a picture of the 150-amp breaker that always trips. Sure wish someone would find a solution soon.

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Old 08-04-2022, 02:22 PM   #8
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I second this ... here is a picture of the 150-amp breaker that always trips. Sure wish someone would find a solution soon.



FLSteve


It’s the average amperage that the HWH requires to operate of 200-215 amps. Both the fuses and the breaker are supposed to be able to handle the overage for the deployment of the FWS. The truth be told, it should be a 175 amp or 200 amp fuse or breaker. The problem is the branch lines that are tied into cable running to the pump. On the Freightliner the digital dash and starter are on that fuse line. Blow the fuse lose the dash and the ability to start the motor. I have 10 spare 150amp Blue Sea System fuses. I have added 2 175amp Blue Sea fuse to my kit also. Since the main cable
that goes to the HWH pump can handle 200 + amps it only makes sense to use a slightly higher fuse. The 150 will handle the 50-60 overage. As I said in my post, I believe the higher quality fuse will allow the slide to deploy without the annoying blown fuse. If I find it continues to happen on a regular basis I will move up to the 175amp fuse. Since we are only seeing 50-60amp overage on a consistent basis and HWH confirms that this is within their specs, I feel comfortable if I have to go that route.
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Old 08-04-2022, 02:57 PM   #9
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What I would want you to check would be the tightness of the connectors on the batteries. Grab the battery cables and see if they move. That can cause high amp draw. Also, are you running the engine while operating the jacks and the slide room? You will bring the voltage up with the engine on and that will lower the amperage on the system. The pump does pull more amps then the fuse. That how the it knows when the cycle off.
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Old 08-04-2022, 03:01 PM   #10
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Standard practice is to select a fuse or circuit breaker that is 125% of the design current. A 150 amp fuse should only regularly see 187.5 amps so 210 amps is not good design practice. A slow-blow fuse only extends the fuse's withstand current for milliseconds and not even seconds. Certainly not the duration of time that it takes to extend or retract a slide. My Country Coach HWH hydraulic slide circuit uses 2/0 cable with a 200 amp circuit breaker. Never an issue.
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Old 08-04-2022, 03:04 PM   #11
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What I would want you to check would be the tightness of the connectors on the batteries. Grab the battery cables and see if they move. That can cause high amp draw. Also, are you running the engine while operating the jacks and the slide room? You will bring the voltage up with the engine on and that will lower the amperage on the system. The pump does pull more amps then the fuse. That how the it knows when the cycle off.


All cables were checked for tightness. Yes engine was running when it was blowing the fuse. HWH stated that 200-215 amp draw at the pump was nominal for deploying or retracting the slide as well as Jack operation.
Newmar is aware of the amperage draw at the pump.
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Old 08-04-2022, 03:27 PM   #12
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Dumb question. Where is this fuse? I only knew about the 4 or 5 at the pump on our 2016. Thanks
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Old 08-04-2022, 03:49 PM   #13
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Oh, and here's a Blue Sea fuse selection guide that supports what I pointed out in my previous post. Look under "minimum fuse amperage" for guidance. Also, note the required wire size for 150 amp fuse circuit versus a 175 or 200 amp circuit. The difference is the gauge of the cable. Perhaps Newmar used 4 AWG cable and had to use a 150 amp fuse accordingly. If so, then Newmar simply cannot recommend using a larger fuse without violating RVIA, IEEE, NEC or NFPA standards and guidelines. The cost of copper is not trivial and cost cutting is science and an art. Once those decisions are made they can be difficult to unwind.
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Old 08-04-2022, 04:40 PM   #14
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Oh, and here's a Blue Sea fuse selection guide that supports what I pointed out in my previous post. Look under "minimum fuse amperage" for guidance. Also, note the required wire size for 150 amp fuse circuit versus a 175 or 200 amp circuit. The difference is the gauge of the cable. Perhaps Newmar used 4 AWG cable and had to use a 150 amp fuse accordingly. If so, then Newmar simply cannot recommend using a larger fuse without violating RVIA, IEEE, NEC or NFPA standards and guidelines. The cost of copper is not trivial and cost cutting is science and an art. Once those decisions are made they can be difficult to unwind.
Completely agree. To the Op, while putting larger fuses in might solve your short term problem you have an issue with your system. Pursue Newmar for a resolution.
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