HWH Leveling system problems

[mbishop10]

I'm having some issues with my leveling system. I have the HWH 325 Series Leveling System on my '04 DSDP 3810. I have down loaded the service manual and have been following the trouble shooting procedures. I'm at a point where I cannot, safely, go any further. Like under the rear of the coach.
I will be taking it in to a repair shop and am now just trying to educate myself about the system.
I started to retract the leveling jacks and all seemed fine.The coach lowered, but the retract lights were not going off. Turns out that the jacks just stopped. I manually raised the jacks and they went up fine. As we pulled out of our spot I realized the air ride system did not inflate. Figuring the coach is as low as it can go, I crawled under the front and pressed one of two air valve buttons and the coach started to raise. I'm really not sure what it was that I pressed, but at least I was able to get home. Upon later investigation I realized that one button inflated the air ride bags and the other deflated them. I don't think that I am putting the system in "TRAVEL"or "DUMP" mode. I'm probably just inflating and deflating the air bags.
I cannot extend the jacks and level the coach.
I can hear the hydraulic pump come on but the jacks do not extend. The pump sounds a little different. Hydraulic fluid is at the proper level.
The level lights on the touch panel do not seem to come on properly.
All the lights come on properly in the control box and there are no blown fuses.
I'm at the point of the trouble shooting where it wants me to check the voltage at dump valve. The wire that I am following does not go to the valves that I was pressing. It goes deep into the coach I assume to the rear. Where I can't safely go.
What I don't remember is: When I press the level button, does the system dump and then once it settles down then the level lights come on? Once the dump valve is actuated is that what puts it in "TRAVEL" or "DUMP" mode?
Any insight about the relationship between the leveling system and the air ride would be appreciated.
Sorry about the wordy post

[Skip426]

If the pump sounds , a little different , and the jacks don't move , then possible that the pressure relief valve is stuck open, and by-passing all fluid flow back to the tank, instead of raising the coach.
When you manually retracted the jacks , did go get the valves fully closed ?
Have you tried re-seating the manual valves?
I'll look at the 325 manual online to see what is different than my system; that has a manual air dump; on the control pad, and see if I can say what your next step would be.

[mbishop10]

I believe the valves have been closed all the way. I doubled checked.
When the problem first arose I tried to level the coach again. That's when we noticed the pump sounded different.
Your probably right, that fluid is just recirculating back to the tank.

["007"]

When you checked the level of hydraulic fluid in tank all the jacks were fully retracted with no shine of jack pistons showing. Hydraulic fluid should read between the two lines of the bell vent shaft.
All the solenoids white ground wires will go to a common ground point on chassis frame make sure the connections to frame are clean connections for good ground.
The pump may have a 40 amp fuse holder feeding the pump make sure when opening the fuse holder cap the interior is clean without corrosion.
The jack springs are what force's the fluid back to the hydraulic holding tank not the pump and solenoids are opened electrically from control board.

[TLGPE]

The HWH dump valve is a three way solenoid/detent air valve. What that means is that when a 12V signal goes to the valve, it switches and stays where you left it, without needing continuous power to stay there. Pulsing the opposite solenoid will reverse the valve. You seem to have found the manual override buttons that allow you to select between ride and dump when the electrical system isn't working right.

I don't know if your leveler is manual or automatic, but in automatic levelling mode, the controller automatically sends a pulse to the dump solenoid. This lowers the coach prior to levelling. Later, when you retract the jacks, it's supposed to send a signal to the ride side to re-inflate the air bags so you can drive. A manual control panel like ours has a "dump" button, but not a "ride" button; the system is supposed to switch to the ride position when I press the "store" button to retract the jacks.

Possibly your inability to deploy the jacks is because the air valve is still in the ride position. I am guessing here, but you may need to click that other override button to force the bags to dump. BE VERY CAREFUL AND GET OUT FAST! It shouldn't drop very fast, but get out of there!

Our coach has a problem with the manual levelers from HWH. The coach is nine years old, so I'm not complaining about HWH, just working on our coach. On ours, the ride solenoid burned out. A new $245 valve didn't fix it. Turns out that a spurious signal was being applied continuously to the "dump" solenoid, not allowing the "ride" side to actuate. I got on the road by unplugging the connectors to the dump valve and using the manual override to inflate the air bags. This got us from ND all the way through the western states and back to Florida. Back at home, I had several chats with the techs at HWH, but we never could get a diagnosis. I gave up and cut the wires going to the dump valve, wired in a selector switch and a push button switch on my console. I get 12V power from an unused fuse. Now I select the dump position, push the button, and dump the air bags. When I want to go again, I select the ride position, push the button, and wait for the bags to inflate. Old school stuff, but it now works without having to rely on somebody else's control board.

Does this help you? Probably not, but maybe it gives a little more insight into the HWH stuff.

Tom

[mbishop10]

Thanks for your reply's.
Tom,
Mine must be an automatic system. When I press the level button the system dumps and the yellow level lights should come on. This is dump mode. When I press the store button the jacks should start to come up and the air ride bags should start to inflate. This is the travel mode. I feel that you are correct that I'm stuck in one mode or the other.
Where is the dump valve that you cut the wires to?
My attached picture shows the valves that I'm using to either fill the bags or dump the bags.

This is in front of the coach just behind the generator. Front of the coach is the left side of the pic. It doesn't appear that the wires coming from the control panel go to these valves. Therefore, I can fill or dump bags, but it doesn't change the mode I'm in. I think.

[wagonmaster2]

Maybe a phone call to HWH is called for here, that is if you don't mind waiting from several hours to all day for a return call. Seems like it takes them forever to get back to a person.
We have the 325 manual HWH system in our 2004 Meridian and twice in the last 11 years our jacks have failed to extend (will retract but not extend) and the rooms won't retract. After some testing that HWH tech lead me through it was determined to be the shuttle valve each time. About a $65 item and reasonable easy to replace if you can handle a wrench, and it only takes 2-3 days to get it from HWH.

Good Luck.

[mbishop10]

Thanks wagonmaster2. I plan on calling on Monday. That would be nice if it were the shuttle valve. But my luck it will be a $400 part.

[TLGPE]

I'm sure your dump/ride valve will be in a different position than mine, but mine is located on a cross member near the generator. The pics you show are probably the pilot operated check valves that actually dump the air from the air bags. This is driven from the solenoid valve I was mentioning. The solenoid valve is foe 1/4" air lines, and drives the larger check valve. That check valve is used only as a "quick dump". In the dump position the check valve is open to let the air bags deflate. In the travel position, the solenoid switches over to let the check valves close and the air bags inflate. It sounds insanely complicated, but it really isn't.


When I get our coach back from the service shop this evening, I'll get a picture of the valve used in the Spartan chassis.


I do not advocate cutting a bunch of wires in your motor home. Far from it. I had a problem that HWH couldn't diagnose from afar, and as an engineer, I was willing to take the steps I though were required to get going again.


As to the travel/dump mode, I'm not sure. You may have gotten the valve in the right position, but the control panel doesn't agree. It still sounds like a problem with HWH.


Keep in touch; I've got to go rescue my coach from the service people.


Tom

[harleyman134]

Originally Posted by mbishop10

Thanks wagonmaster2. I plan on calling on Monday. That would be nice if it were the shuttle valve. But my luck it will be a $400 part.

Good luck with calling HWH, I called this morning trying to order a part. The girl got my name and phone number and said parts were back up and they would call me later, right now they are returning calls from April 29.

[bowpulpit]

Call Stuarts Service in Elkhart 800 826-6267. They know everything about HWH systems, stock and sell all parts at very reasonable prices. A little better than HWH I think. Will also help you trouble shoot over the phone.

[mbishop10]

I called HWH on Monday the 11th. They told me they were a week out for call backs. However they called back two days later!
I talked to a tech and he's kind of bewildered about the lights in the control box. Which I thought were functioning as they should. Not sure where I went wrong in the trouble shooting steps. I will investigate that.
He told me to take the plexiglass cover off the control box and look in the upper right side and look for a burned trace. The pic shows what I found. I could smell it as well.

Now my question is why?
More phone calls to come. Including Stuarts Service.
Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Scottybdivin]

I had a similar but different problem. I was not getting power to anything. It turned out to be a burnt circuit also. I sent it to HWH and they repaired it. Plugged it in and everything worked.

[mbishop10]

I just talked to someone about this issue of a burnt circuit board and his first thought was low voltage. He's not a RV'er but does have heavy equipment experience.
That caused a light bulb to illuminate over my head(maybe a little dim, though).
I was just about to leave my camp site and I don't remember for sure, but I may have already unplugged from shore power and not started my engine yet. I have been questioning the condition of my batteries so typically I stay plugged in until the last moment.
Until this I didn't realize what was happening when I push the "Store" button on my jacks. 12 volts are holding the solenoid valve open. Correct? Voltage drops, amps go up to try to get the work done?
Seems like a fuse should have blown.
Any thoughts to help illuminate this light bulb over my head is appreciated.


One other question. Since I have to turn the ignition on or to the accessory, is it my chassis batteries that operate the leveling system?

One more question. Since I want full power to do stuff like put out slides and level, are the following three equal?

• Plugged in to shore power.
• Engine running.
• Generator running.

As always thanks for your help.