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Old 06-16-2021, 06:35 AM   #57
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I installed the Stage 8 kits this weekend, pretty straight forward. A little bit of a chore to get the bolts lined up for the brackets to slip over, and the c-clips on the upper bolts of the kitchen slide produce a few swearwords getting them on. But overall fairly easy, it just the tight work space.

But here is the troubling thing. I have had the coach 19 months since new and I have had to re-torque the bolts 3 times with the last time using Loctite. When I checked them last week even with the Loctite they were loose again.

So why would even Loctite not work? I pulled the first bolt out and blew it out with an air gun and a cloud of silver dust came out, not good. I inspected the hole and the threads were all gulled. As I pulled more out they were all the same way.

So I made a chaser thread bolt and cleaned each bolt hole in an attempt to smother out the damage threads. It did a pretty good job. Then proceeded with the install.

So here is my theory. Durning assembly the bolts are being over torqued which damaging the threads. The damaged threads are now weakened and are stretching, thus causing the bolt to loosen up, not from turning but from the weakened threads stretching. This is why the Loctite is not working.

I first checked mine when the coach was 6 months old, then at 12 months and again at at 18, which all were loose each time. Each time I tightened them I really did not like the way they felt, almost like there were on the verge of stripping, although I did get to torqued to 19 ft lb.

In 6 months I’m going to check a couple bolts to see is they have held the torque of if the are loose again. If they are loose again, then the threads in the motor housing I have been compromised from being over torqued and stretching, which creates a whole other set of issues. Fingers crossed.
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Old 06-19-2021, 03:29 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom chelbana View Post
Great work, for most slide out motors except the bedroom slide which has a different set of bolts and screws. When one is checking and changing the slide out motor bolts don't forget to check under your bed the slide out motor bolts for bedroom slide too.
Newmar Man
Does everyone need to change the slide motor bolts? If so I’d think it’d be a recall!

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Old 06-20-2021, 11:17 AM   #59
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I would use red locktite as well. Clean the threads with brake or carb cleaner. Apply red locktite and torque to spec. Problem solved. If the motor ever fails you wont care if you wreck the threads in the housing. Red locktite wont fail.
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Old 06-26-2021, 03:11 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sramer View Post
I installed the Stage 8 kits this weekend, pretty straight forward. A little bit of a chore to get the bolts lined up for the brackets to slip over, and the c-clips on the upper bolts of the kitchen slide produce a few swearwords getting them on. But overall fairly easy, it just the tight work space.

But here is the troubling thing. I have had the coach 19 months since new and I have had to re-torque the bolts 3 times with the last time using Loctite. When I checked them last week even with the Loctite they were loose again.

So why would even Loctite not work? I pulled the first bolt out and blew it out with an air gun and a cloud of silver dust came out, not good. I inspected the hole and the threads were all gulled. As I pulled more out they were all the same way.

So I made a chaser thread bolt and cleaned each bolt hole in an attempt to smother out the damage threads. It did a pretty good job. Then proceeded with the install.

So here is my theory. Durning assembly the bolts are being over torqued which damaging the threads. The damaged threads are now weakened and are stretching, thus causing the bolt to loosen up, not from turning but from the weakened threads stretching. This is why the Loctite is not working.

I first checked mine when the coach was 6 months old, then at 12 months and again at at 18, which all were loose each time. Each time I tightened them I really did not like the way they felt, almost like there were on the verge of stripping, although I did get to torqued to 19 ft lb.

In 6 months I’m going to check a couple bolts to see is they have held the torque of if the are loose again. If they are loose again, then the threads in the motor housing I have been compromised from being over torqued and stretching, which creates a whole other set of issues. Fingers crossed.

I'm waiting with "baited breath"!!!! for the results...

Ok, so now you got me curious So, I pulled one of the grade 7 bolts out, yes... 5 marks grade 7, the other bolts were all grade 5... huh??? I don't get it... another fine example of Newmar engineering quality...

These mounting bolts are 1/2" long/deep... stuck my pick in there and found that the bolt well is 1 1/4" deep, tested the threads with my pick and they went nearly all the way to the bottom of the bolt well, but not all the way. When tapping, the end of the tap is tapered so it can't create threads all the way to the end of the bolt well. I ran a 1 1/4" bolt in and got some good resistance so I didn't try to fully seat the head. So I re-measured how deep the threads run. On this particular bolt well they went 1". I've ordered new grade 8 bolts. they are 3/8"-16 x 1" with a 9/16" head over a lock washer. Didn't bother replacing the lock washers with grade 8's. I will use Loctite Red to prevent them from backing out. With an additional 1/2" of bolt in the bolt well I feel confident that they will not move.

I'd say that the short bolts are the problem in my case. With the steel mounting plate and lock washer there is only about 5/16" of 1/2" bolt in the aluminum transmission housing, clearly not near enough to manage the torque to move that huge slide. I confirmed this with the corrosion markings on the old short bolts. It is no mystery to me that Loctite blue would not keep these things from turning due to not enough threads with material on them.... Remember blue is not perm, but red is.... I kind of doubt that red would work either with the original 5/16" long threads..... I'm surprised that Newmar let this get by them... someone had to know about this huge FUBAR!

Thanks for revisiting this subject, it got my attention again, and believe I have solved it.....
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Old 06-26-2021, 06:26 PM   #61
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Full strength is achieved at a depth of the bolt diameter plus two threads. So, in a 5/16-18unc thread , that is just under 7/16" of full thread engagement. For the 3/8-16unc thread bolts, full strength would be achieved at 1/2' full thread engagement. -Paul
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:46 PM   #62
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PandS is right. But a steal bolt threaded into pot metal I would trust more threads .
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Old 06-27-2021, 09:09 AM   #63
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Full strength is achieved at a depth of the bolt diameter plus two threads. So, in a 5/16-18unc thread , that is just under 7/16" of full thread engagement. For the 3/8-16unc thread bolts, full strength would be achieved at 1/2' full thread engagement. -Paul
Exactly... by the time you add the thickness of the washer and the mounting plate the bolt is far too short for the application. 1/2" bolt minus the washer and plate is a little less than 3/8" total engagement. So, by making the bolt 1", I should have slightly less than 7/8" total engagement. Add the red loctite and we should meet the engineering requirements for full strength. In my mind, clearly the 1/2" bolt length is the cause of the problem.

FIL was a bolt CAD designer, learned a lot from him... He could look at a bolt and give the correct specs...I have to measure everything... he was amazing... I'm satisfied that who ever choose the bolts was more concerned with the cost than the engineering specs for full strength. Stupid grade 8's 1" long are .97 each... What is sad is that Newmar didn't just do a factory recall on these so shifted the cost onto the owners with failed motor cases. All moho manufacturers are the same... some do a little better, some do the bling better... gotta watch out and think for yourself...
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Old 06-27-2021, 09:32 AM   #64
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I would use red locktite as well. Clean the threads with brake or carb cleaner. Apply red locktite and torque to spec. Problem solved. If the motor ever fails you wont care if you wreck the threads in the housing. Red locktite wont fail.
While Loctite is good, full engagement of the bolt for the diameter won't be solved by the loctite. 1/2" bolts need to be changed out for 1" bolts for full engagement strength... think about it, 3/8" engagement to move that huge slide???
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Old 06-27-2021, 09:38 AM   #65
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Looks like the Grade 8 kit has the longer bolts.... cool..
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Old 06-27-2021, 10:56 AM   #66
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Looks like the Grade 8 kit has the longer bolts.... cool..



Did you mean Stage 8 instead of grade 8 ?
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Old 06-27-2021, 11:41 AM   #67
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As one who has many years of experience with Newmar slide outs one of the biggest problems is that with a bolt we have found that the thread engagement is very important. The recommendation of using studs that go to the back on the threaded hole has worked for us the last 15 years. Would even suggest red Locktit on the stud so as to give it even a better engagement. Has worked on both LA and the Essex. Stage 8 even better but not really needed.
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Old 06-27-2021, 11:37 PM   #68
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I installed the stage 8 kit. $75
Took < 1/2 hour
Hardest part was putting on the clips
The bolts supplied were slightly longer & no lock washer so deeper into the hubs
Has to be better than before
All you can do … is all you can do …
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Old 06-28-2021, 03:56 AM   #69
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I installed the stage 8 kit. $75
Took < 1/2 hour
Hardest part was putting on the clips
The bolts supplied were slightly longer & no lock washer so deeper into the hubs
Has to be better than before
All you can do … is all you can do …
I think it’s better than red loctite, you don’t have to heat the bolts up if you ever have to remove them.
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Old 06-28-2021, 12:03 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by tom chelbana View Post
As one who has many years of experience with Newmar slide outs one of the biggest problems is that with a bolt we have found that the thread engagement is very important. The recommendation of using studs that go to the back on the threaded hole has worked for us the last 15 years. Would even suggest red Locktit on the stud so as to give it even a better engagement. Has worked on both LA and the Essex. Stage 8 even better but not really needed.
Newmar Man
Now that sounds like a real solution. Install ARP studs (with locktight) so they use the max. useable depth on the motor then install with a flat washer and self locking nuts (with locktight??). Or even better safety wire the nuts. Should last as long as the motor??
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