I Want, Stop Lights OFF - When Exhaust Brake is ON...!!!!

[JD4x4]

Well, it looks like the OP got the answer (or a contact for an answer) plus the view from each side of the unwanted debate, albeit with a bit of selective thread pruning. Hope it saves him some money & gives him RV time happiness.

Being on the sidelines for this I'm kind of shocked that a manufacturer would not have thought this through better, and I've been part of vehicle manufacturer's engineering discussions on various topics so I know they (can/should/do) happen.

Seems to me that the flashing/pulsing on decel and/or retarder operation is a win-win, and follows the thinking of the one uber-safety-conscious real life practical example I posed on page 5.

That's what I think I'd lobby for as a change or even a regulation. (And I'm Libertarian so I don't take advocating for, or considering regulations lightly, lol)

Happy RV Holidays everyone.

[KanzKran]

Originally Posted by Rotten-Red

Well I guess It's time now for us old retired truck drivers to disagree. I turned the stop lights off on my Newmar when using the exhaust brake. I don't feel it a safety hazard to not have the stop lights on while descending a 5 mile long grade. In fact I feel just the opposite. If someone follows you down that grade and sees your stop lights burning the entire time then for some reason it's necessary for you to use your service brakes to slow down quickly they will have no warning. That my friend is the real hazard.

One more comment I'd like to make is that the exhaust and compression brake devices installed on these trucks and motorhomes where put there as an aid for descending grades. They weren't put there so every time you lift your foot off the accelerator, come to a stop sign, or pull into a fuel stop that your Jake brake has to be utilized. That's amateur hour. If everyone used them for what they were designed for there would be no need for this thread.

I agree with every word in this, and I used to drive semis for a living, FWIW. Mostly 3-position Jake brakes on 290-300 hp Cummins with 6 or 7-speed trannies.

A warning signal, light or sound, that's used too much becomes part of the landscape and essentially ineffective. Including back-up alarms on trucks and heavy equipment, especially on busy sites where there's a cacophony of alarms chirping.

A retarder is no different than using a lower gear, but allows driving faster without picking up unwanted speed. Moving at a steady speed neither requires nor is advisable to have brake lights. IMO, of course. Burning brake lights down a long grade at highway speeds tells the driver behind you nothing, but then stepping on the brakes to slow (like when coming up on a slower vehicle) will still tell the driver behind you nothing as they've been burning the whole time, and that is a very real safety risk.

[SLS]

Originally Posted by Dmorris2020

SLS

I am wondering if you ever found a solution to turning off brake lights when the exhaust brake activates?

NO..................

I first want to thank the members that have posted many ways to attack this issue. Thank You

I was at FL Wednesday and Thursday and Cummins on Friday. The FL service manager is getting me some more information. I will need to go back through the post and find the member that said "Get me a wire diagram".

Cummins went into the programming. The service manager was surprised to see there was not an option to "Enable or Disable" this function. He said the Cummins ECM goes to a chassis mfg.. The Chassis Mfg has a VCU (Vehicle Control Unit), PCM (Powertrain Control Module), etc.....This unit then supplies connections for a Coach Mfg to hook-up all the different functions. The Chassis Mfg. (not coach builder) will program this module to operate functions for the coach builder.

He said that a 6 to 10 ohm resistor could be installed very easy and that resistance would stop the signal to the brake lights but would not interfere with other functions of ECM, VCU, PCM .........etc

I am working on the "FIX" for this an appreciate the members help on this subject.

----------------------------------------------------------

Two NEW Idea's.

1. I would sure like to see a forum that when you start a thread that had a secondary thread attached that addresses other "Related" subjects, opinions, legal advice, etc..... could be dropped into. What did all the post on Toads and all the systems have to do with my OP?????

2. MY Solution to satisfy everyone on this thread.

1. Do what School Bus already do. YELLOW lights ON when they are slowing down and RED when there STOPPING......

___________________________________________

I own 8 other vehicles including a 2019 Maserati Levante, 2019 RAM 1500 Limited, 2017 Range Rover Evoque Convertible, 2013 SLS GT Roadster, 2 Six Speed Transmission 2014 Rubicon and a 2005 SSR LS2, etc.......
NON of the ABOVE turn on the brake lights when I downshift to use compression to slow down. I may need to get another Patent and invent an aftermarket "Plug & Play" module that will turn on every vehicles brake lights when they take their foot off the throttle........

FYI for the Legalist. My daughter is an attorney and prosecutor. If your going to post legal advice, please post a case number I can refer to that makes your point.

SLS

[Mr.Mark]

SLS, I think I finally have a work-around for you. With your nice stable of cars, move your coach up to the next level too.

Buy a Prevost with a retarder, no brake-lights.

Safe travels,
Mark

[JD4x4]

[QUOTE=SLS;4544571]

Originally Posted by Dmorris2020

SLS

I am wondering if you ever found a solution to turning off brake lights when the exhaust brake activates?



NO..................

I first want to thank the members that have posted many ways to attack this issue. Thank You

..<snip>

SLS

fwiw, blocking diodes are wonderful things as well. And when they are in a circuit (in either direction) they generally are electrically "transparent". You would need to find a spot in the wiring (or a separate wire from an ecu, etc) that's the last place before the common wire going to the brake light (where brake "on" output and jake brake "on" output join), and install it in the reverse direction to the current flow. Effectively blocking the current or signal. Could even wire a SPDT switch that runs the current through as normal or sends it to the reversed blocking diode.

Of course, if the circuits join in an ecu (or are a logic function of an ecu) then you could be screwed. But someone here has said they were able to kill theirs so I'm guessing it's a fairly simple fix. Maybe even an ecu option with the right mfr/tech/device/programming.

[SLS]

Originally Posted by Mr.Mark

SLS, I think I've finally have a work-around for you. With you nice stable of cars, move your coach up to the next level too.

Buy a Prevost with a retarder, no brake-lights. [emoji23]

Safe travels,
Mark

I was at Marathon yesterday.
I had one before and was going to get another. But, my son ordered a new 4313 and did a factory delivery. I toured with him and thought i would order a new DSDP.
I only live 73 miles from Marathon and know a lot of the folks there. Newmar is the best value for the money. I stopped at Guaranty in Junction City, "#1 Newmar service center" west of the factory and talked about the time it takes to get into a Newmar service center.
I will say that is not an issue with Marathon if you are broke down.

Merry Christmas


SLS

PS....That's not the whole stable.....[emoji8] [emoji4]

[FL420]

Originally Posted by SLS

1. I would sure like to see a forum that when you start a thread that had a secondary thread attached that addresses other "Related" subjects, opinions, legal advice, etc..... could be dropped into. What did all the post on Toads and all the systems have to do with my OP?????

I own 8 other vehicles including a 2019 Maserati Levante, 2019 RAM 1500 Limited, 2017 Range Rover Evoque Convertible, 2013 SLS GT Roadster, 2 Six Speed Transmission 2014 Rubicon and a 2005 SSR LS2, etc.......


FYI for the Legalist. My daughter is an attorney and prosecutor. If your going to post legal advice, please post a case number I can refer to that makes your point.

SLS

[mod edit]

I have never posted legal advice online at any time. I am neither qualified nor am I licensed to do so. I have had to navigate my way around a bit in the legal arena and have learned how to do the research. Anything I can do to help someone looking for a law which may help them answer a question regarding a decision they might make I will do. It takes practice and experience to find your way through all the tangled mess of laws that some lawyers(not your daughter I hope) have created to keep themselves employed.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by Rotten-Red

Well I guess It's time now for us old retired truck drivers to disagree. I turned the stop lights off on my Newmar when using the exhaust brake. I don't feel it a safety hazard to not have the stop lights on while descending a 5 mile long grade. In fact I feel just the opposite. If someone follows you down that grade and sees your stop lights burning the entire time then for some reason it's necessary for you to use your service brakes to slow down quickly they will have no warning. That my friend is the real hazard.


One more comment I'd like to make is that the exhaust and compression brake devices installed on these trucks and motorhomes where put there as an aid for descending grades. They weren't put there so every time you lift your foot off the accelerator, come to a stop sign, or pull into a fuel stop that your Jake brake has to be utilized. That's amateur hour. If everyone used them for what they were designed for there would be no need for this thread.

Well said! I could not agree more.

[barmcd]

This thread is in danger of being closed because certain members are engaging in personal attacks on each other. Let me remind you of this statement from or rules.

"Do not take every opportunity to express your disagreement, incite argument, insult each other, or fan flames. Voice your opinion respectfully and then let it go."

If you have a point to make, make it, then move on. There is no prize for having the final word.

[cbeierl]

Originally Posted by FL420

...
For instance:
"S5.5.4The stop lamps on each vehicle shall be activated upon application of the service brakes. The high-mounted stop lamp on each vehicle shall be activated only upon application of the service brakes."
The key words in the first sentence above are "shall be activated" while the key words in the second sentence are "shall be activated ONLY."
What the first sentence doesn't say (which FMVSS 108 does say) is that the two low-mounted corner stop lamps MAY also be activated by an auxiliary braking system. What the second sentence says specifically is that only the service brakes can activate the high-mounted center stop lamp. IIRC, FMVSS 108 doesn't supercede or even address the third stop lamp.

This restriction that the high-mounted center stop lamp "shall be activated ONLY" by the application of the service brakes seem pretty clear that it is a violation of that regulation for the engine/exhaust brake to activate the center brake light!

[SLS]

One member posted to look at the fuse panel at the back of the coach.
Mine is an Eaton A66-05172-001. I think this is where the ECM may send signal to. I think this maybe a new starting point.
If any of you Electronic Guru's want to take this flag and run it up the pole.
I still have several other iron's in the fire.
I'm hoping that one of these leads will get the Brake Lights OFF when the Engine Brake is ON.......

Thanks Again,

SLS

[SLS]

Originally Posted by cbeierl

This restriction that the high-mounted center stop lamp "shall be activated ONLY" by the application of the service brakes seem pretty clear that it is a violation of that regulation for the engine/exhaust brake to activate the center brake light!

We (I) could send this to FL and Newmar and see if this will cause them to release the info needed to turn off the brake lights on the exhaust brake......

Good information,

SLS

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by SLS

One member posted to look at the fuse panel at the back of the coach.
Mine is an Eaton A66-05172-001. I think this is where the ECM may send signal to. I think this maybe a new starting point.
If any of you Electronic Guru's want to take this flag and run it up the pole.
I still have several other iron's in the fire.
I'm hoping that one of these leads will get the Brake Lights OFF when the Engine Brake is ON.......

Thanks Again,

SLS

Here is a diagram of the fuses there:

[SLS]

That is the same as mine.
Thanks,
SLS