Liquid spring installation- a whole new world

[AZbaystar]

Thanks for the post. You are where I think we are heading with our Bay Star. Thanks again and Happy New Year!

[onechaddude]

Originally Posted by AZbaystar

Thanks for the post. You are where I think we are heading with our Bay Star. Thanks again and Happy New Year!

I've had the front and rear LiquidSpring on my 2021 BayStar for about 6 months now and yes, it's as good as everyone says. Amazing!!

Chad

[Suburbazine]

I can't help but bug Wayne to hurry up and make a kit for mine every time I see one of these threads!

[hjabernathy]

Originally Posted by onechaddude

I've had the front and rear LiquidSpring on my 2021 BayStar for about 6 months now and yes, it's as good as everyone says. Amazing!!

Chad

What model of Bay Star do you have Chad? Where did you have the Liquid Springs installed and what was the cost? What kits did they install on the front and back?

Hans

[Mayne_Doc]

I agree. Newmar should offer LS or significantly improve the suspension on their gas rigs. Spring?????? Newmar is a luxury brand and should make this a priority

[hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by Tmark929

I prefer diesel but there are no diesel toy haulers.

Newmar would argue that point with you since the 2021 models were introduced a couple of years ago. Actually, there are no more gas Canyon Stars since then.

[onechaddude]

Originally Posted by hjabernathy

What model of Bay Star do you have Chad? Where did you have the Liquid Springs installed and what was the cost? What kits did they install on the front and back?



Hans

Hello!! I have a 2021 BayStar 3626. We bought it end of April and had the LiquidSpring installed middle July. We went to Indiana to the factory to have it done. I talked with Wayne a couple times and they were not too far to go (about 600 miles)so I decided they were the best option for me. So glad I did!! They were awesome, couldn't have been better. I assume there's only 1 kit that's available but i have both front and rear on the F53 chassis. Total cost out the door was somewhere right at 20k. Don't remember the exact cost but very close.

We had an entry level diesel pusher with air ride that we sold to buy the BayStar. After about 50,000 miles in it and now about 4000 miles with the LiquidSpring on the BayStar, there's no comparison. The Baystar rides better, drives better, and handles better. I do miss the diesel engine and air brakes and better fuel mileage but overall a much better traveling experience.

Chad

[jdyson]

Originally Posted by onechaddude

Hello!! I have a 2021 BayStar 3626. We bought it end of April and had the LiquidSpring installed middle July. We went to Indiana to the factory to have it done. I talked with Wayne a couple times and they were not too far to go (about 600 miles)so I decided they were the best option for me. So glad I did!! They were awesome, couldn't have been better. I assume there's only 1 kit that's available but i have both front and rear on the F53 chassis. Total cost out the door was somewhere right at 20k. Don't remember the exact cost but very close.

We had an entry level diesel pusher with air ride that we sold to buy the BayStar. After about 50,000 miles in it and now about 4000 miles with the LiquidSpring on the BayStar, there's no comparison. The Baystar rides better, drives better, and handles better. I do miss the diesel engine and air brakes and better fuel mileage but overall a much better traveling experience.

Chad

I’ve also had both higher GVW Diesel pushers and more entry level as well as gassers of 22k, 24k, 26k GVW’s. In general I’ll say that not all DP’s are equal, of course, but also the differences in how some of them ride vs gassers is often misunderstood. The ones with straight front axles vs Independent Front Suspension (IFS) don’t ride or handle a lot better than gassers on the 26k chassis in my opinion. The DP’s with IFS generally do. Some of this is always a matter of opinion as to degrees of difficulty on either platform. The 26k gasser chassis has been easier to drive for me than either the lower GVW gassers or the lower GVW Diesels with straight front axles that I’ve owned. The extra weight and wheelbase makes a difference.

Every RV is perfect for someone.

In my previous post I attempted some humor about the gasser fueling, but will attempt again to cast it with these thoughts about Liquid Spring upgrades.

Two advantages that accrue to diesels vs gassers in general are a quieter ride (particularly when climbing hills) and an easier fueling experience since you can line up with the big rigs at truck stops. The reason I went back to gas this time was because I didn’t want 4 slideouts and diesel coach prices had risen to where the better-built ones were too expensive for me. I would rather own a better-built gasser than a poorly-built diesel like the previous one I owned.

Liquid Spring seems to me a good upgrade for anyone who likes the quality of their gasser enough to keep it long enough to drive the value of the LS investment out of it, doesn’t mind the considerable planning required to pick fuel stops in a gasser, doesn’t mind the engine noise when climbing and wants to achieve a ride and handling experience more comparable to what you get with an IFS-equipped DP.

So, when considered not as a thing unto itself but rather as an improvement among these other things that go with gassers, Liquid Spring seems like the perfect solution if the ride and handling is all that’s keeping you from trading for a diesel coach.

And… I’m still thinking about it.

[hjabernathy]

Thanks for the information Chad. We are really looking forward to getting Liquid Springs on our 2018 Newmar 3307 Bay Star Sport. We will be putting it to a serious test this year when we travel from Arizona to Newfoundland. On our prior trip to NF in 2017 we discovered the road vagaries in NF: shrink-swell cracks and dips and more serious bridge abutment transitions. We are hopeful that the LS will mitigate the emotional effects of those conditions.

In regards to the various LS kits, there are three front models now according to Wayne and four rears; the rear models are described on their web site but not all the fronts last I looked. The fronts are 7k, 8k and 9k. I believe only the 9k is described on their site. The rears are: 12k, 13.5k, 15k and 17.5k. We are putting the 8k and 15k on our rig per Wayne’s recommendation.

I would have preferred to go to the LS factory for installation. Alas, they’re 1600 miles away, and we would have had to stay in a hotel with our dog for two weeks since we full timers with no longer an in-place abode. You got the LS for a great price. I suspect that there was a significant price increase shortly after your install, to the tune of 25%. As I reported in a prior post, most places are charging $25k now but at least one is up to $30k. Maybe the factory is still doing it for $20k, but I kind of doubt it. As I’m sure everyone is aware, prices have gone up 25%-50% on most everything in the last six months or so.

We are going to the factory on our trip east for two reasons. I’d like to see the place, and more importantly Wayne said that they’ll do the 1000 mile check-up for no charge. I’d like them to examine the installation and confirm that it was done properly and well.

On an unrelated note, I have no experience driving diesel RVs, but I did own a diesel 2019 Ford F-350 4x4 with which I pulled a 9500lb bumper pull trailer.. I have to say that the power and engine brake in the diesel were immense improvements over the Toyota Tundra gasser “tow truck” that did fine for three years prior.

CHEERS and SAFE TRAVELS
Hans

[onechaddude]

Originally Posted by jdyson

I’ve also had both higher GVW Diesel pushers and more entry level as well as gassers of 22k, 24k, 26k GVW’s. In general I’ll say that not all DP’s are equal, of course, but also the differences in how some of them ride vs gassers is often misunderstood. The ones with straight front axles vs Independent Front Suspension (IFS) don’t ride or handle a lot better than gassers on the 26k chassis in my opinion. The DP’s with IFS generally do. Some of this is always a matter of opinion as to degrees of difficulty on either platform. The 26k gasser chassis has been easier to drive for me than either the lower GVW gassers or the lower GVW Diesels with straight front axles that I’ve owned. The extra weight and wheelbase makes a difference.



Every RV is perfect for someone.



In my previous post I attempted some humor about the gasser fueling, but will attempt again to cast it with these thoughts about Liquid Spring upgrades.



Two advantages that accrue to diesels vs gassers in general are a quieter ride (particularly when climbing hills) and an easier fueling experience since you can line up with the big rigs at truck stops. The reason I went back to gas this time was because I didn’t want 4 slideouts and diesel coach prices had risen to where the better-built ones were too expensive for me. I would rather own a better-built gasser than a poorly-built diesel like the previous one I owned.



Liquid Spring seems to me a good upgrade for anyone who likes the quality of their gasser enough to keep it long enough to drive the value of the LS investment out of it, doesn’t mind the considerable planning required to pick fuel stops in a gasser, doesn’t mind the engine noise when climbing and wants to achieve a ride and handling experience more comparable to what you get with an IFS-equipped DP.



So, when considered not as a thing unto itself but rather as an improvement among these other things that go with gassers, Liquid Spring seems like the perfect solution if the ride and handling is all that’s keeping you from trading for a diesel coach.



And… I’m still thinking about it.

I agree with you on your points. Especially the cost of a quality diesel coach now was way more than I would spend. My previous DP was an entry level and no IFS. I did a fair amount of work on it myself to get it riding and driving better which helped but isn't anywhere as good as my BayStar is now IMO.

Just noticed on your bio that you are from Advance. I live in Lexington! It's a small world.

Chad

[onechaddude]

Originally Posted by hjabernathy

Thanks for the information Chad. We are really looking forward to getting Liquid Springs on our 2018 Newmar 3307 Bay Star Sport. We will be putting it to a serious test this year when we travel from Arizona to Newfoundland. On our prior trip to NF in 2017 we discovered the road vagaries in NF: shrink-swell cracks and dips and more serious bridge abutment transitions. We are hopeful that the LS will mitigate the emotional effects of those conditions.

In regards to the various LS kits, there are three front models now according to Wayne and four rears; the rear models are described on their web site but not all the fronts last I looked. The fronts are 7k, 8k and 9k. I believe only the 9k is described on their site. The rears are: 12k, 13.5k, 15k and 17.5k. We are putting the 8k and 15k on our rig per Wayne’s recommendation.

I would have preferred to go to the LS factory for installation. Alas, they’re 1600 miles away, and we would have had to stay in a hotel with our dog for two weeks since we full timers with no longer an in-place abode. You got the LS for a great price. I suspect that there was a significant price increase shortly after your install, to the tune of 25%. As I reported in a prior post, most places are charging $25k now but at least one is up to $30k. Maybe the factory is still doing it for $20k, but I kind of doubt it. As I’m sure everyone is aware, prices have gone up 25%-50% on most everything in the last six months or so.

We are going to the factory on our trip east for two reasons. I’d like to see the place, and more importantly Wayne said that they’ll do the 1000 mile check-up for no charge. I’d like them to examine the installation and confirm that it was done properly and well.

On an unrelated note, I have no experience driving diesel RVs, but I did own a diesel 2019 Ford F-350 4x4 with which I pulled a 9500lb bumper pull trailer.. I have to say that the power and engine brake in the diesel were immense improvements over the Toyota Tundra gasser “tow truck” that did fine for three years prior.

CHEERS and SAFE TRAVELS
Hans

I know what you are saying now Hans with the different kits. Those are vases on the GVW of your chassis and your axle ratings. My LS is the 9k front and 17.5 rear. My coach is on the 26k chassis. I believe you will be surprised of the difference in ride. Going up to the factory in Indiana we traveled through WV. Some of those roads are pretty rough. Coming back with the LS on was a huge difference. In sure Newfoundland roads are worse due to the much colder weather.

I mentioned in my last post I missed the braking of the DP air brakes. Also included with that is the exhaust brake. I really, really miss that feature. The tow/haul helps by gearing down to help slow you, but it's nothing like the EB of a diesel. Maybe I'm just use to 50,000 miles of air brakes, but the brakes on my F53 chassis do not instill much confidence. They are very weak feeling to me, to the point I was gonna have the service dept check them if I ever get an appointment to get the recall done on the rear axle. Hope your brakes are better than mine.

Chad

[jdyson]

Originally Posted by onechaddude

I know what you are saying now Hans with the different kits. Those are vases on the GVW of your chassis and your axle ratings. My LS is the 9k front and 17.5 rear. My coach is on the 26k chassis. I believe you will be surprised of the difference in ride. Going up to the factory in Indiana we traveled through WV. Some of those roads are pretty rough. Coming back with the LS on was a huge difference. In sure Newfoundland roads are worse due to the much colder weather.

I mentioned in my last post I missed the braking of the DP air brakes. Also included with that is the exhaust brake. I really, really miss that feature. The tow/haul helps by gearing down to help slow you, but it's nothing like the EB of a diesel. Maybe I'm just use to 50,000 miles of air brakes, but the brakes on my F53 chassis do not instill much confidence. They are very weak feeling to me, to the point I was gonna have the service dept check them if I ever get an appointment to get the recall done on the rear axle. Hope your brakes are better than mine.

Chad

Yes, the brakes are the weak link on the 26k chassis and gassers in general. requires a s l o w hill descent speed to keep control and even then still nothing like air brakes. not to mention how often they’ll need to be replaced. they’re sometimes worn out in 15-20k miles if used a lot in mountains vs 100-150k for air brakes, largely due to exhaust (or jake/compression on the high end DPs) brake assist.

Yes, looks like we’re practically neighbors here in the Triad, Chad. Hope to see you around sometime. My wife and I joined Kountry Klub but haven’t been to any NC rally yet.

[hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by onechaddude

I know what you are saying now Hans with the different kits. Those are vases on the GVW of your chassis and your axle ratings. My LS is the 9k front and 17.5 rear. My coach is on the 26k chassis. I believe you will be surprised of the difference in ride. Going up to the factory in Indiana we traveled through WV. Some of those roads are pretty rough. Coming back with the LS on was a huge difference. In sure Newfoundland roads are worse due to the much colder weather.

I mentioned in my last post I missed the braking of the DP air brakes. Also included with that is the exhaust brake. I really, really miss that feature. The tow/haul helps by gearing down to help slow you, but it's nothing like the EB of a diesel. Maybe I'm just use to 50,000 miles of air brakes, but the brakes on my F53 chassis do not instill much confidence. They are very weak feeling to me, to the point I was gonna have the service dept check them if I ever get an appointment to get the recall done on the rear axle. Hope your brakes are better than mine.

Chad

Just curious, why would air brakes work any different than hydraulic brakes? The actual brakes are the same for both. Just the method of applying pressure are different. What am I missing?

[Jabber Jaw]

"Just curious, why would air brakes work any different than hydraulic brakes? The actual brakes are the same for both. Just the method of applying pressure are different. What am I missing?"


I believe the reference has to do with the size of the brakes, and added strength of application of "air-brakes"! That said, without all the technical differences.
On a "DP" the size of the brake pads/brake shoes is usually a bit larger, even though the weight of the coach is significantly heavier. Therefore in theory, providing better braking.

The original post is about the amazing difference in ride/handling quality with Liquid Spring suspension on a solid front axle gas chassis, compared with the ride/handling of a diesel chassis with a solid front axle.

I plan on keeping this Canyon Star, until I get to old or incapable of continuing to "RV"!

This was the correct solution for me! It may or may not be for others!

Choose whatever is the best solution for you, and above all else,
ENJOY YTHE RV LIFE!
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