Liquid spring installation- a whole new world

[macnut]

hjabernathy, may the rest of your long trip be safe and enjoyable! Thanks for your thoughts about the factory. For us, the 2,200 miles each way to the factory was just too far to go. We do hope to make it to that area of the US at some point. Take care!

[macnut]

Originally Posted by macnut

Anyone with Baystar and LS have the issue of the steps scraping or getting stuck when the coach is lowered? If so, what is your fix? Thanks!

Another fix for for this, instead of keeping your jacks down in storage, is to keep your steps up even when the door is open!

To do this, get a strong magnet and place right behind the magnetic step connection on your door frame. This will prevent the steps from extending as long as the magnet is there.

I plan to use this fix when in storage, and also when I take the RV in for servicing.

[Jabber Jaw]

UPDATE:

As a result of my original post, I am happy to say that at least 9 other individuals have contacted me reference "Liquid Spring" suspension, and at least 8 of them have had "LS" installed on their coach!

The reports I am getting, is that everyone is "Happy" with the results!

It is through "Forums" like this, and the sharing of information with each other, that makes the "RV" experience even that much more pleasurable!

And after 10,000+ miles on my "Liquid Spring" equipped Newmar, I am totally happy with the ride & drive characteristics of this wonderful coach!

Happy "RV'ing"!!

[macnut]

Thanks Jabber Jaw! Best (and most expensive) upgrade I’ve made to an RV. I would not own another gas coach without it.

[hjabernathy]

Just a quick note for anyone with LiquidSprings and a Safe-T-Plus Steering Stabilizer installed on a Ford F53 chassis to check out my recent thread: Liquid Springs and Safe-T-Plus Warning

We have driven our Newmar MOHO over 15,000 miles since the LS install in February 2022, traveling from Tucson to Newfoundland and back across the southern margin of Canada before dropping down into the US in North Dakota and making our way west to Olympia, WA and south back to Tucson. I'd say we put the LS to a decent test. It performed admirably, except for the mishaps described in my recent thread noted above. Irrespective, we are very glad we had the LS and STP installed. Both the installers, Ryan and his crew at Arizona Springs in Tucson and Chad and Wayne at LiquidSprings were very professional and helpful. We are particularly grateful to Chad for performing the first post-installation inspection at the LS factory in Lafayette, IN in early May when we were passing through. The LS has made our coach so much more enjoyable to drive. Additionally, the ability to lower and lift the coach 3-1/2" from the drive height setting has been wonderfully beneficial on more than one occasion. The LS was an extremely expensive modification, but one that has proven to be worth the investment.


Hans

[BigMC]

Originally Posted by Jabber Jaw

Let me start by saying I know most in this group are the proud owners of Newmar "Diesel" Coaches! Yet, some of choose not to go that route, I being one of them.
So, being a proud owner of a Newmar Canyon Star "gas" coach; like everyone else; I have the desire for the best ride & drive comfort which I can attain.
I ordered my 2020 Canyon Star in July of 2019, & did "FPU" in October 2019.
Having owned a 2004 Mountain Aire "gas" coach for a short while, and through a lot of research, made decisions about improving the new coach, upon delivery.
So, I ordered 4 new Koni shocks, an Ultra-Trac rear track bar, a Saf-T-Plus front steering stabilizer, and brought them with me to Napanee. After the intial test drive, I was sure I had made the correct decision to acquire & have installed, the aforementioned products. This was happily done by Bremmen Ford, the Dealer which services all of Newmar's gas chassis'. At their recommendation, I also had them install Sumo front springs. Wow, what a difference & improvement! At that point, I was quite HAPPY!
However, these changes did not totally eliminate the "bang" of uneven bridge transitions, nor the bumpity bump of concrete expansion joints! Though better, this was not the solution I was seeking. Oh, I addressed the engine noise folks spoke of, by adding significant insulation & sound deadening material from "Dyna Mat" to the engine box & surrounding areas! Quite an improvement!
So, while attending the 2020 Tampa Super RV Show/Newmar Rally (what a show), I come upon a display from a company called "Liquid Spring", & met Wayne Wells the Vice-President. He educated me about Liquid Spring suspension & even had me drive his Tiffin "Demo"! Very impressive. But at the time they offered Liquid Spring suspension only for the rear of coach. Wayne told me the front suspension was in development and was to be released late 2020, early 2021. We also spoke of the expense, and at that time, I would not pull the trigger to have just the rear suspension installed. Later that year, the front suspension was released and available. Due to the expense, I still was reluctant.
Fast forward to September 2021. We had spent June, July, August, traveling. Visited family in Virginia, did a Virginia Wheels Rally, a Newmar Caravan, the Newmar International, then back to Florida. In October, back to Virginia for a 55th Class Reunion, & Newmar Virginia State Rally at Ameri-Camp RV Park. This constituted over 6,000 miles of travel. Much of it up & down I-95! Well, if any of you have traveled I-95, there is a portion in South Carolina that is miserable! Horrible bridge transitions, terrible expansion joints, & even some wonderful "potholes" thrown in for added driving experience. We were headed back South to Florida, my wife & I both complaining about this horrible road! I said, "You know Liquid Spring would probably eliminate about 80-90% of this"! Her reply; "I'm tired of it! If it will work, then do it"! WOW!
Upon return to Florida, I call Wayne at Liquid Spring, we discuss installation, price, etc, then the reality of 1,200+ miles each way, hotels, meals & of course the wonderful increased price of gas was going to be significant added expense! BUT, I find out a company in Orlando, JOSAM Equipment Co, located in Orlando is a Liquid Spring installer!
Only 91miles away! I contact JOSAM, we discuss price, installation etc, and I decide to pull the trigger, & spend the money! We set an appointment for installation, and I drop off the coach on Monday, November 29th. On the drive home, I'm talking about it so much, the wife tells me to calm down; boy was I anticipating this installation.
I get a call on Monday, Dec. 6th, the coach is ready. So, Tuesday, Dec. 7th (Pearl Harbor Day, a Day that will live in Infamy), we drive to Orlando to pick it up. Upon arrival, we discuss the installation, and I go for a test drive. WOW! WOW! WOW! Was it ever impressive! So, very happily, I write the check, hook up the toad, & away we go!
I will digress for a moment. All Ford F-53 chassis' have a solid axle front suspension, just as does the Kountry Star, Ventana LE, & Ventana! Since they do not have independent front suspension, none of them will ride like A Dutch Star, Mountain Aire, etc, in the Luxury Line up of Newmar! The diesel coaches do have an air-ride suspension in front, where an F-53 ford chassis has leaf springs & shocks. With Liquid Spring, this is all gone! Liquid Spring uses a silicone based fluid & cylinders (shocks) to provide the suspension movement, damping, and control!
Impressive to say the least! This system has 3 "ride" positions; SPORT, NORMAL, & COMFORT.
SPORT, will all all but eliminate any lean/roll from driveways, entrances, etc, and the cloverleaf entry/exit to Interstates. It does provide more of a sports car feel of the road, & yes a bit more of a feel to expansion joints, and bridge transitions.
NORMAL, provides a great ride, and almost totally reduces any bump from transitions, expansion joints, or other road imperfections.
COMFORT is the "BOMB"! This ride is so soft & smooth, it is like driving a pick-up truck down the road. One can drive the coach with one hand, if desired; I don't; but what ease of handling, lane changes, and just provides a fantastic ride on the road! Am I ever HAPPY!
Some other benefits. You can raise the coach 3 1/2" for driveway exits, swales, etc,. Then it can be lowered 3 1/2" for ease of entry, setting up in one's RV site. The adjustment is almost instantaneous. Turn on the ignition and 15-20 seconds, it is at ride height (has sensors just as a diesel coach does); no "airing up" time, and these adjustments can be made while moving, but at 15 MPH, automatically goes to ride height.
I have driven a Ventana, which has a nice ride, but must say, the ride of this Liquid Spring suspension is equal to, if not better than the Ventana. Nothing against the Ventana, but this suspension system is just that impressive!
OK, so you say, that's great, How much? I will preface the total amount by saying I had a front end alignment done, the front tires "trued" & rebalanced, and new inside dual valve stems installed as well! The total was right at $25,000. And No, I am not the least bit reluctant to have paid that to get the ride & handling that it has achieved! Liquid Spring factory installation may be a bit less, due to shipping expenses, but taxes must still be added. And I did not have all the travel expenses to bear. I could not make the "numbers" work, going to Indiana, nor did I have to worry about the weather.
The price differential in what I have invested in total, in this endeavor, still puts me at a price which is $56,000 less than I was quoted on a diesel Ventana, when I ordered my Canyon Star! And we know the annual maintenance cost of the gas coach is less than the diesel. And No, this is not for everyone, but for me, it was the right decision, and the wife & I are just tickled to death with this coach!
This decision/direction is not for most folks, but for us, has worked out as we wanted!
And that is why Newmar makes many different model coaches with varying drive train! As well as different levels of luxury! But, Newmar does build a fantastic coach, in my opinion!
I hope you have enjoyed reading this little "epistle", and maybe it brought some laughs as well!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Thanks for a great read. I have a Baystar gasser with the newer V8 and new Ford chassis and pull a 4 door Rubicon with relative ease. Even on a 10% gradient for over 3 miles, it still maintained 35 mph which is pretty impressive. On this newer chassis generally, I find it fine with the odd bad pot hole accepted. But I do find the RV a little light on steering but you get use to it.

Interesting in that I get with the tow vehicle an average of 7.6 mpg, sometimes higher and am well loaded on the cargo side. 7.6 mpg includes a good number of gradients (usually 6%). When I consider gas prices vs diesel and what many DP owners quote for mpg and servicing. The gasser on this V8 is better than I thought, but of course I don't have the addd benefits of cargo carrying capacity, ceramic floor tiles, etc and overall much nicer fittings.

So my question then.

When you consider the GVWR and GCVWR of your Canyon star, how much overall weight did the liquid spring add and therefore what did you loose on cargo carrying capacity?

I think the other thing to consider is value on resale. It will of course add value but this is likely to be dependant on the cash resources of the buyer, and here is why.

Finance houses take book trade value, times this by about 120% and that is the max they lend (as a rule), so any difference is down to what a buyer has in cash to add. The liquid spring will not add anything to the book value, so that is something to consider, depending of course if when selling, how long you have had the RV and if your trading and a deal is to be done.

If you say went for a New Aire (accepting the price difference) the air suspension is 'as manufacture' so will benefit from being included in the assessed book value. There will be some added in that compared to a gasser with liquid spring.

Just a point some may wish to consider. Glad you're enjoying the Canton Star and the LS addition. Just remember.......You are not alone, there are gasser on the forum

Have a great coming Holiday

[Jabber Jaw]

BigMc.......

Fuel mileage wise, my V-10 (2019 F-53 , 26,000GVWR chassis) gets from 6.8-7.2 mpg towing our 2017 GMC Terrain. A variety of terrain, from sea-level to 11,000ft. Only time, not towing, got 8.2mpg for a 110 mile trip.

As to added weight. Per 4-corner weighing of the coach at the Newmar International Rally's in '21 & '22, "LS" added 602#, almost equally distributed.

Regards "CCW", my Canyon Star "3710" still has almost 900# still available, and I carry all kinds of "stuff"! This model has the highest "CCW" of any of the 38'-40' models. As it has two slides, vs. three or four, on other models. Examples would be the "3719" or "3722". Bay Star, as an example, has a similar model, a "3609".

As to "added value", NADA may not add value, but just as in cars/trucks, options are added that increase value & not in NADA. But, a good point!
I believe a prospective buyer would readily pay the difference, especially, if a "seasoned" buyer. A "newbie", may or may not be aware. So it would be up to the "seller" to educate them.

Merry Christmas!

Allan

[Gumpster808]

Originally Posted by Jabber Jaw

BigMc.......

Fuel mileage wise, my V-10 (2019 F-53 , 26,000GVWR chassis) gets from 6.8-7.2 mpg towing our 2017 GMC Terrain. A variety of terrain, from sea-level to 11,000ft. Only time, not towing, got 8.2mpg for a 110 mile trip.

As to added weight. Per 4-corner weighing of the coach at the Newmar International Rally's in '21 & '22, "LS" added 602#, almost equally distributed.

Regards "CCW", my Canyon Star "3710" still has almost 900# still available, and I carry all kinds of "stuff"! This model has the highest "CCW" of any of the 38'-40' models. As it has two slides, vs. three or four, on other models. Examples would be the "3719" or "3722". Bay Star, as an example, has a similar model, a "3609".

As to "added value", NADA may not add value, but just as in cars/trucks, options are added that increase value & not in NADA. But, a good point!
I believe a prospective buyer would readily pay the difference, especially, if a "seasoned" buyer. A "newbie", may or may not be aware. So it would be up to the "seller" to educate them.

Merry Christmas!

Allan

We are trading in our 2014 E450 class c with liquid springs on the rear.

It was added to the trade in value we wanted along with other upgrades we have done.

Dealer number was pretty close to what we wanted so we did get our investment back, and had two years of thorough enjoyment of the nice ride and handling after the LS installation.

[Clemson]

Sounds like a great enhancement to your coach. There is another posting today from an owner who had the same mods done and damaged his exhaust manifold. You may want to search for his post.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by BigMC

When you consider the GVWR and GCVWR of your Canyon star, how much overall weight did the liquid spring add and therefore what did you loose on cargo carrying capacity?

In the last week I sent LiquidSpring an email asking that question. They responded the same day and said that installing front and rear LiquidSpring would add about 550 lbs.

But he also said they are working on a weight reduction plan for the F-53 and expect to be able to knock 200 lbs off. He said they would put an announcement on their web site when that change is ready. He also said that the chassis GVWR does not really impact how much weight gets added. The same weight is added for all.

350 lbs for front and rear would be a lot more palatable for our 22K chassis.

Ray

[PetesMH]

Interesting thread. When we got our BSS we were very unhappy with the ride and handling. Looked into LS and was prepared to go forward but had a long trip already scheduled so decided to do it in the winter when we used the coach less frequently. But somewhere along the way we just got used to it and realized we were no longer unhappy. Saved ourselves a bunch of money and enjoyed many happy trips thereafter. I’m sure we’d have liked it fine with the liquid springs but we also liked it fine without!

[hjabernathy]

What model and year BSS do you have?

[macnut]

I just wrote a detailed post on my Liquid Spring install and thought I’d share it here for those interested.
Al

https://mobilemosers.com/2022/12/29/...ng-suspension/

[SierraDesign]

We are meeting with Josam Truck Frame & Alignment next Friday to get started with the Liquid Spring's. I wanted to know if you were happy with the process and would recommend them. All it took was a test drive of the test unit and it convinced my wife and I this was a worthy investment. Thanks for posting.