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Old 12-11-2021, 03:28 AM   #1
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Liquid spring installation- a whole new world

Let me start by saying I know most in this group are the proud owners of Newmar "Diesel" Coaches! Yet, some of choose not to go that route, I being one of them.
So, being a proud owner of a Newmar Canyon Star "gas" coach; like everyone else; I have the desire for the best ride & drive comfort which I can attain.
I ordered my 2020 Canyon Star in July of 2019, & did "FPU" in October 2019.
Having owned a 2004 Mountain Aire "gas" coach for a short while, and through a lot of research, made decisions about improving the new coach, upon delivery.
So, I ordered 4 new Koni shocks, an Ultra-Trac rear track bar, a Saf-T-Plus front steering stabilizer, and brought them with me to Napanee. After the intial test drive, I was sure I had made the correct decision to acquire & have installed, the aforementioned products. This was happily done by Bremmen Ford, the Dealer which services all of Newmar's gas chassis'. At their recommendation, I also had them install Sumo front springs. Wow, what a difference & improvement! At that point, I was quite HAPPY!
However, these changes did not totally eliminate the "bang" of uneven bridge transitions, nor the bumpity bump of concrete expansion joints! Though better, this was not the solution I was seeking. Oh, I addressed the engine noise folks spoke of, by adding significant insulation & sound deadening material from "Dyna Mat" to the engine box & surrounding areas! Quite an improvement!
So, while attending the 2020 Tampa Super RV Show/Newmar Rally (what a show), I come upon a display from a company called "Liquid Spring", & met Wayne Wells the Vice-President. He educated me about Liquid Spring suspension & even had me drive his Tiffin "Demo"! Very impressive. But at the time they offered Liquid Spring suspension only for the rear of coach. Wayne told me the front suspension was in development and was to be released late 2020, early 2021. We also spoke of the expense, and at that time, I would not pull the trigger to have just the rear suspension installed. Later that year, the front suspension was released and available. Due to the expense, I still was reluctant.
Fast forward to September 2021. We had spent June, July, August, traveling. Visited family in Virginia, did a Virginia Wheels Rally, a Newmar Caravan, the Newmar International, then back to Florida. In October, back to Virginia for a 55th Class Reunion, & Newmar Virginia State Rally at Ameri-Camp RV Park. This constituted over 6,000 miles of travel. Much of it up & down I-95! Well, if any of you have traveled I-95, there is a portion in South Carolina that is miserable! Horrible bridge transitions, terrible expansion joints, & even some wonderful "potholes" thrown in for added driving experience. We were headed back South to Florida, my wife & I both complaining about this horrible road! I said, "You know Liquid Spring would probably eliminate about 80-90% of this"! Her reply; "I'm tired of it! If it will work, then do it"! WOW!
Upon return to Florida, I call Wayne at Liquid Spring, we discuss installation, price, etc, then the reality of 1,200+ miles each way, hotels, meals & of course the wonderful increased price of gas was going to be significant added expense! BUT, I find out a company in Orlando, JOSAM Equipment Co, located in Orlando is a Liquid Spring installer!
Only 91miles away! I contact JOSAM, we discuss price, installation etc, and I decide to pull the trigger, & spend the money! We set an appointment for installation, and I drop off the coach on Monday, November 29th. On the drive home, I'm talking about it so much, the wife tells me to calm down; boy was I anticipating this installation.
I get a call on Monday, Dec. 6th, the coach is ready. So, Tuesday, Dec. 7th (Pearl Harbor Day, a Day that will live in Infamy), we drive to Orlando to pick it up. Upon arrival, we discuss the installation, and I go for a test drive. WOW! WOW! WOW! Was it ever impressive! So, very happily, I write the check, hook up the toad, & away we go!
I will digress for a moment. All Ford F-53 chassis' have a solid axle front suspension, just as does the Kountry Star, Ventana LE, & Ventana! Since they do not have independent front suspension, none of them will ride like A Dutch Star, Mountain Aire, etc, in the Luxury Line up of Newmar! The diesel coaches do have an air-ride suspension in front, where an F-53 ford chassis has leaf springs & shocks. With Liquid Spring, this is all gone! Liquid Spring uses a silicone based fluid & cylinders (shocks) to provide the suspension movement, damping, and control!
Impressive to say the least! This system has 3 "ride" positions; SPORT, NORMAL, & COMFORT.
SPORT, will all all but eliminate any lean/roll from driveways, entrances, etc, and the cloverleaf entry/exit to Interstates. It does provide more of a sports car feel of the road, & yes a bit more of a feel to expansion joints, and bridge transitions.
NORMAL, provides a great ride, and almost totally reduces any bump from transitions, expansion joints, or other road imperfections.
COMFORT is the "BOMB"! This ride is so soft & smooth, it is like driving a pick-up truck down the road. One can drive the coach with one hand, if desired; I don't; but what ease of handling, lane changes, and just provides a fantastic ride on the road! Am I ever HAPPY!
Some other benefits. You can raise the coach 3 1/2" for driveway exits, swales, etc,. Then it can be lowered 3 1/2" for ease of entry, setting up in one's RV site. The adjustment is almost instantaneous. Turn on the ignition and 15-20 seconds, it is at ride height (has sensors just as a diesel coach does); no "airing up" time, and these adjustments can be made while moving, but at 15 MPH, automatically goes to ride height.
I have driven a Ventana, which has a nice ride, but must say, the ride of this Liquid Spring suspension is equal to, if not better than the Ventana. Nothing against the Ventana, but this suspension system is just that impressive!
OK, so you say, that's great, How much? I will preface the total amount by saying I had a front end alignment done, the front tires "trued" & rebalanced, and new inside dual valve stems installed as well! The total was right at $25,000. And No, I am not the least bit reluctant to have paid that to get the ride & handling that it has achieved! Liquid Spring factory installation may be a bit less, due to shipping expenses, but taxes must still be added. And I did not have all the travel expenses to bear. I could not make the "numbers" work, going to Indiana, nor did I have to worry about the weather.
The price differential in what I have invested in total, in this endeavor, still puts me at a price which is $56,000 less than I was quoted on a diesel Ventana, when I ordered my Canyon Star! And we know the annual maintenance cost of the gas coach is less than the diesel. And No, this is not for everyone, but for me, it was the right decision, and the wife & I are just tickled to death with this coach!
This decision/direction is not for most folks, but for us, has worked out as we wanted!
And that is why Newmar makes many different model coaches with varying drive train! As well as different levels of luxury! But, Newmar does build a fantastic coach, in my opinion!
I hope you have enjoyed reading this little "epistle", and maybe it brought some laughs as well!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
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Old 12-11-2021, 04:32 AM   #2
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Thanks for the feedback. Your assessment echos what others have reported about the Liquid Springs suspension.

I am satisfied with the way my Bay Star rides from the factory so I don't feel a pressing need to upgrade to Liquid Springs at this time. But if I were to commit myself to keeping my Bay Star long term, I would definitely look into this upgrade.

I am very tempted to take a test drive in one of Liquid Springs demo motorhomes just to see for myself the difference in ride and handling. But I am very afraid if I do take a test drive, I will then see what I am missing and want the upgrade right away.
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Old 12-11-2021, 08:06 AM   #3
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Al

great write up, I am about to pull the trigger on LS for my new BayStar, which is scheduled for delivery in January. LS install will be scheduled for April sometime. There is a highly qualified dealer installer in New Jersey about 90 miles from me that Wayne Wells recommended, it is a lot of money, but I am in the camp that I want the best possible ride for the gas coach....Another way that I look at this investment in LS is when I do go to sell the Baystar. I believe I will get a higher trade in or resale to offset the initial cost of LS, or at least I am telling myself that....
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Old 12-11-2021, 11:08 AM   #4
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Jabber Jaw: Congrats on the happy results from you LS suspension improvements. I just want to suggest you investigate getting an AGREED VALUE comprehensive INSURANCE policy, because IF you have only the typical ACV policy coverage your significant (expensive) upgrades won't add any value if the rig is totaled.

Sadly, you most likely won't get much added value if/when you trade for another coach.

FWIW, I agree with your overall reasoning for the upgrade. What I don't understand is "why" Newmar won't offer the LS as a chassis upgrade in the first place. They certainly have the ability to swap out the suspension on a bare chassis while it is in their chassis shop. That would have saved you all the money you spent on your first try to enhance the ride.

Merry Christmas to you, too !
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Old 12-12-2021, 05:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgray View Post
Jabber Jaw: Congrats on the happy results from you LS suspension improvements. I just want to suggest you investigate getting an AGREED VALUE comprehensive INSURANCE policy, because IF you have only the typical ACV policy coverage your significant (expensive) upgrades won't add any value if the rig is totaled.

Sadly, you most likely won't get much added value if/when you trade for another coach.

FWIW, I agree with your overall reasoning for the upgrade. What I don't understand is "why" Newmar won't offer the LS as a chassis upgrade in the first place. They certainly have the ability to swap out the suspension on a bare chassis while it is in their chassis shop. That would have saved you all the money you spent on your first try to enhance the ride.

Merry Christmas to you, too !
Every RV and every upgrade is perfect for someone in my opinion!

Most of what I don't like about my Bay Star has to do with fueling. Anybody aware of a service where a guy follows you on your trip with a fuel tanker so you can do in-flight fueling and don't have to maneuver a 55-58 foot rig around a gas pump?
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Old 12-12-2021, 08:36 AM   #6
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I agree on a gas coach the concern is access to gas pumps.... i started doing what some have recommended on this site by estimating fuel and distance use google maps to get a birds eye view of the fueling station and see if it can accommodate a Class A rig. ....
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Old 12-12-2021, 12:07 PM   #7
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Did you have the 4 corner system installed? Liquid SpringsŪ sell either the rear only or the front and rear called the "4 corner" system. Since we have a high end DP we don't need it but I know some who do and every one of them swear by it. We're thinking of getting a smaller Class C to drive to Alaska and having them installed first.
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Old 12-12-2021, 12:09 PM   #8
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Please keep this thread on the topic of the OP's LiquidSprings mod.

Fueling issues belong in their own thread.

Thanks!
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Old 12-13-2021, 07:14 AM   #9
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Rev Roy......

Yes, I had front & rear installed! And it is fantastic.

Contact Wayne Wells at Liquid Spring. He's VP of Sales, a great guy, And can answer your questions!

Also, visit the website for information & review.

www.liquidspring.com
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Old 12-14-2021, 12:38 PM   #10
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I enjoyed your write up and follow up posts Jabber Jaw for the data, writing quality and attention to editing. I am wondering which model Canyon Star Gasser you own because I only see diesel Canyon Stars on Newmar’s website. I’m asking because I own a 2018 3307 Bay Star Sport Gasser that I’m seriously thinking about having the front and rear Liquid Springs installed on. Why? It is a real chore to drive, and that’s putting it ‘civilly’. I’ve spoken with Wayne Wells of LS as part of my in-depth research into how to improve the drive-ability of my coach. Having recovered from “sticker shock” and knowing that we will keep this coach for many years, we have decided to make the huge investment. We are confident that it will be valuable and worthwhile.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I could spend several thousand to as much as $8000 putting Koni Shocks, Sumo Springs or Air Bags and Added Leafs to the leaf springs with little to moderate mitigation of my issues based on reports that I’ve been able to find on the internet. In regards to the steering stabilizer, that is not the problem. I have lots of experience dealing with steering stabilizers from my 2019 Ford F-350 which experienced Death Wobble until I mitigated the cause - a crappy OEM stabilizer. I ended up investing $1000 in THREE steering stabilizers - a FOX ATS to replace the single OEM POS and a Kelderman Dual FOX setup.

We are looking at an early March install in Redlands, California at Redlands Truck and RV (RTRV). Wayne told me that most LS installs on motorhomes have occurred in the western US, and RTRV have done the most by far.

Thanks again for your inspiring story.

Hans
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Old 12-14-2021, 08:36 PM   #11
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Hans;

I'm sure the "LS" installation will help your ride, drive, & handling situation substantially!

Best of Luck, & I hope you will enjoy your "LS" suspension as much as I enjoy mine!

Allan
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Old 12-21-2021, 11:59 AM   #12
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New information about our scheduled install of Liquid Springs. We decided to go with Arizona Springs in Tucson. Made our deposit on 17 December and the front and rear LS units (8k front, DS150 rear as per Wayne Wells’s recommendation) were ordered on that day. Wayne texted me on 20 December that the ship date for our units is 31 January. That is just over the six week build time that Wayne said the factory was out when we were in the throes of making a decision. We’re hoping the units arrive in Tucson by mid-February and the installation is complete by the end of the month.

We decided to go with AS for a couple reasons. First and foremost, their estimate came in at the price we’d heard from two other sources: LS itself and Jabber Jaw’s final cost in November 2021 using JOSAM in Florida - $25,000. The shop in Southern California wanted $29,808, nearly 20% more. AS has significant experience installing LS., so we’re confident that they will do a good install and that they have the knowledge to stand behind their estimate (fingers crossed). Lastly, we have places to stay in and around Tucson, so we won’t have to pay for and live in a hotel for two weeks during the install.

Another point I’ll bring up for Newmar coach owners regards the location of the cab control unit. I had Wayne give me the dimensions of it: 2.13”T, 3.37”W, 0.39”D. It will fit perfectly on the horizontal panel left of the driver just behind the leveler controls. That will make it easily readable and accessible to the driver while driving.

We are eagerly looking forward to driving the coach after the LS is installed. We are confident that this will be a worthwhile and cost-effective solution to a big gas coach that is a CHORE to drive.

When we get done, we’ll have invested $134,000 in our 34’ gas motorhome. We purchased it used for $90,000 with 16;000 miles on. We put six new TOYO tires on it for $2,700. I installed a lithium battery-based solar power system with two 720 watt residential-sized solar panels and Victron inverter/solar controller/battery monitor/color control screen that cost us about $9,500 (installers wanted $4,500-$5,000 to do the install), a new gas/electric Suburban Water Heater that cost $350 and a Safe-T-Plus Steering Stabilizer that will cost about $550. I just spoke to STP who is going to sell me just the tie-rod bracket and U-bolt kit; I don’t need the big anchor bracket because the front LS unit has this bracket built into it. I’ll update the cost of the mounting hardware when STP gives me a price.

We could have spent a lot more money on a diesel coach with an air-ride suspension, but we chose to go with a gasser. I had no idea how poorly these large gas coaches drive; I’d never driven one. I am confident that the LS suspension will produce a ride, and drive-ability, that will make our on-the-road life much better. I’ll certainly let y’all know how that goes.
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Old 12-21-2021, 02:57 PM   #13
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I have liquid spring, installed four years ago. Love it. It makes a world of difference for ride and drive. Along with Banks power system , and five star tune to increase HP by 80 plus.

The Canyon Star Toy Hauler is the best in the industry and Liquid Spring, Five Star, Banks makes it into a great RV.

I prefer diesel but there are no diesel toy haulers.
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Old 12-21-2021, 03:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmark929 View Post
I have liquid spring, installed four years ago. Love it. It makes a world of difference for ride and drive. Along with Banks power system , and five star tune to increase HP by 80 plus.

The Canyon Star Toy Hauler is the best in the industry and Liquid Spring, Five Star, Banks makes it into a great RV.

I prefer diesel but there are no diesel toy haulers.
Newmar currently has a front diesel toy hauler in the Canyon Star line.
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