MADP won't start. Electrical Fuses?

[Streff]

We have a 1999 Newmar MA DP Cummins 330ISC on a Spartan chassis.

In the process of putting in new House batteries (4X6volts),
I accidently shorted the leads. So I took all the house batteries
out, cleaned the tray and called a local Rv electrician. He could not
remember which leads go where. So he tried a couple of combinations
with no success and this is what happened:

The engine now does not start. It cranks but does not start. I have
no air pressure (front & rear), no oil pressure, the
Allison Tranny "warning light" is on. I checked all fuses with a
continuity tester and only found the Dash A/C blown and 30amp
instead of 25amp was in the VAC pump fuse. All other fuses (battery
isolater, House Batteries 40amp fuse, etc.) were fine.
After sometime, I removed the leads from the Chassis batteries to
erase computer memory and codes, still no improvement.

Is a short from the house batteries responsible for this? I was
under the impression that the house batteries have nothing to do
with the engine and drivetrain? Are teh house batteries needed to
get Air pressure? I think that I may be missing a fuse location but
I am not sure. My MADP did not come with a manual on fuse locations?

Interestingly, when the genset is running everything works fine but
the engine still does not start.

I think that i have a better idea of how to connect the house
batteries back as I was able to trace the Ground from the chassis
rails back to the batteries comp. i am worried about reconnecting
before I get some feed back from any of the experienced MA owners.


Any help or advice would be enormously appreciated.

Simon

[Streff]

We have a 1999 Newmar MA DP Cummins 330ISC on a Spartan chassis.

In the process of putting in new House batteries (4X6volts),
I accidently shorted the leads. So I took all the house batteries
out, cleaned the tray and called a local Rv electrician. He could not
remember which leads go where. So he tried a couple of combinations
with no success and this is what happened:

The engine now does not start. It cranks but does not start. I have
no air pressure (front & rear), no oil pressure, the
Allison Tranny "warning light" is on. I checked all fuses with a
continuity tester and only found the Dash A/C blown and 30amp
instead of 25amp was in the VAC pump fuse. All other fuses (battery
isolater, House Batteries 40amp fuse, etc.) were fine.
After sometime, I removed the leads from the Chassis batteries to
erase computer memory and codes, still no improvement.

Is a short from the house batteries responsible for this? I was
under the impression that the house batteries have nothing to do
with the engine and drivetrain? Are teh house batteries needed to
get Air pressure? I think that I may be missing a fuse location but
I am not sure. My MADP did not come with a manual on fuse locations?

Interestingly, when the genset is running everything works fine but
the engine still does not start.

I think that i have a better idea of how to connect the house
batteries back as I was able to trace the Ground from the chassis
rails back to the batteries comp. i am worried about reconnecting
before I get some feed back from any of the experienced MA owners.


Any help or advice would be enormously appreciated.

Simon

["007"]

Streff, At least let me welcome you to IRV2.
Did your electrician tag any cables for your house batteries? If not are you camping and are your slides locked? When you work on any batteries you should put your batt switch in store as if for winter storage. The slides could start to operate and if locked snap your nite stands at bed, off the face of slide.
You have checked all large fuses for the chassis and all under drivers window?
You may have blown a isolator between the house batts and chassis batts.
I know someone with a MADP I'll have him pick up this post maybe he has some wiring diagrams he has also added many house batts for solar panels. BE safe we will get back to you. "007"

[ajbjrvers]

To; Streff;

I just received a phone call from Newmar moderator, "007 " . He called me because I have had some of the same problems you are having and over time have solved { ? } them.

I'll try to go over each situation you posted in order to eliminate confusion, which is a major problem when chasing electrical problems.

6 volt house batteries; Connected in series/parallel, Looking at 4, 6 volt batteries with the 2 + posts on your right on front cornors of batteries. .the - posts are on the left rear corner of each battery.

Before you do any connections, disconnect the + lead that runs back to bay , usually on drivers side of rig , should be 8/0, 6/0 red cable , this cable runs across rig, usually,around engine, usually 1/2 inch wrench, now the link from batteries to rig components.
This lead is connected to solonoid.

Back to the battreies, using at least a 3/0 welding cable, connect the 2 + posts on 2 batteries on the right side , now connect the - posts on left rear corners, Connect the front right battery's - post to the left front battery's + post, do the same thing to the back 2 batteries. This is now a series/parallel connection.
Next, make sure there is a good, clean ground from batteries to chassis, if there is one, again it should be 3/0 welding cable and you must take off existing ground and sand, grind and clean chassis before connecting ground, this good grounding avoids a lot of head-aches and problems. There is a cross-tying you can do , but we'll do that later

Engine, no start, you indicate you were working on house batts, usually no connection between engine and house batts unless boosting or charging. check all engine batt connections, clean them while your at it,wire brush etc, Generator ussually connected to engine batts, if gen starts, engine should, unless batts need heavy charging, Take a voltage reading of engine batts, if lower than 12 volts, charge them, an engine that hasn't run for a period of time needs all the starting juice it can get,or get a jumb =start from a tow truck, unless the starter is not connected or faulty the engine should start after charging, unless the solonoid is gone, best if you have a helper at ignition and you stand, lay on ground under starter to see if the solonoid is engaging.

The air pressure will show when engine runs and usually the tranny light will go off, Did you check the fuses on the isolator ? Do you have other fuses in the same bay with 50 amp. cord ? Look for the starter relay, on my rig it is in bay in front of batt. tray

You didn't mention if you have an inverter, if yes, make sure the circuit breakers are on,for charging purposes,
As far as other connections on house batts, + and - leads should be connected one set at time or one lead at a time until you get the right 2 for each application, appliances etc.

Fuse locations on my 02 are as follows

Engine, tranny in front above gen set behind plexi- glass cover, 3 different sizes.

House fuses; on top of dash under cover in back of instrument cluster, IN cabinet with 110 volt panel and in bay with 50 amp. cord.

I think this is about as far as I can go without having more info.

Hope this helps== Good luck=== AJBJRVERS

[Streff]

Thank you so much for the great reply,

I do have a 400w inverter. I checked all fuses in all compartments, I was surprised that the 2 5amp fuses on the isolater were fine with continuity tester. I did not know about fuses in the driver's door area?

The rig had been sitting since Feb 16, so it maybe weak batteries. Interestingly, the solar panel light, which rarely comes on, came on today and some of the lights worked for a bit with only chassis batteries connected. But they stopped working after a while.

I am worried that I may have fried the computer brain of both engine and tranny. But tranny fuse is good. The House batteries fuse, which I am sure the electrician did connect inversely on a couple of occasions before giving up, was just fine. Very strange.

I will charge the chassis batteries or maybe use my portable jump to boost them and see what happens. I hope to identify which cables are positive and which are negative before in order to connect the house batteries tomorrow.

Thanks again for all your very helpful advise.

[RV Wizard]

Streff, if you are in cold weather be sure the block heater has been on for an hour or so, the voltage to the chassis batteries is fully charged and that the wait to start light goes out before turning key to engage starter. This will preheat the cylinders with the glow plugs. If the engine is cranking, the engine should start if 1- there is sufficient fuel getting to engine. 2- glow plugs are good. 3- RPM's of engine are sufficient.
If the house lights were coming on from the chassis batteries you could have a solenoid that is stuck allowing voltage to be drained off the chassis batteries to the house 12 volt distribution panel. THis will drain the chassis battery over time depending on how many loads are on. This could have happened when the house battery bank was connected improperly. On your chassis there are chassis circuit breakers in the compartment next to the batteries as well as under the driver's window. Let us know how you come out on getting the engine started and the house batteries correctly connected.

[Streff]

Thank you Rv Wizard & ajbjrvers,

I have connected the house batteries and the house lights seem to work finw, I think. I boosted the chassis batteries but still the engine cranks but does not start. I cleaned all connections to the starter selenoid, still nothing.

The starter however is making a continuous buzzing noise, I am not sure if that is normal. I do not know how to check the starter or selenoid? I also did not check teh fuel pum as I could not find it.

Finally, I don't know where the "under the driver's window fuse box is located". I have a front fuse area above the genset, in the rear I have 2 places (one in a comp. ahead of the batt comp. and one on the driver's side ahead of the water/sewer bay).

I may ahve fried the fuel pump and or the ECM.

Thanks again for all your help

Simon

[Streff]

An update,

I called Cummins and Spartan yesterday. They both pointed at the fuel system. I hear the fuel pump working, so that's eliminated. Spartan recommended to bleed the fuel system/filter any air. Does anyone
know how to do that?

Also, Standing outside the coach near the back, before starting the engine, I hear a whining/low buzz noise coming from under the coach. I crawl under the engine in the back and I isolate the noise to the starter. Just a continuous sounds. No other activities are happening. The engine has not even cranked yet. Key is one clicked only.


I ordered the Silverleaf yesterday, should be here tomorrow and I will take it from there.


Thansk for your help very much.

Streff

[ajbjrvers]

To; Streff;

Glad to see you aree making some progress.

I have not had to deal with any fuel system problems--YET>

I store the rig from late October to April, I keep the fuel tank full, I had the additive from Wal-mart, 1 bottle treats 300 gallons, but I use 2 bottles because I replace fuel used by engine, gen set and hydro-heat.

At this point, if it were me, I would get Cummins involved, they have road service.

What can seem like a problem where parts are replaced turns out not to have been the problem and you keep chasing, often times creating more problems. This may be cheaper in the long run.

Sometimes , we have to bow to the real experts

Hope problems solved soon,, Thanks -== AJBJRVERS