More info on chassis battery drain

[Patti Brown]

We took the Bay Star to the Interstate Battery place to have the chassis battery tested. The man who was doing the testing, himself an RVer, said, "this is really ironic. I have a buddy in Naples, FL who has this same exact coach and he's had the same exact problem with the chassis battery discharging. He spent hours and hours having it checked out and worked on, both by Ford and by RV service places. Your battery is good, so let me call him and ask him what he found out." When he did, he learned that his friend had finally ended up jumpering the chassis battery to the coach batteries to stop the drain. However, the man had recently traded the coach in for a larger, heavier one and when he told the dealership about the battery issue, they said they knew exactly what it was. Something about a continuous draw being pulled by something inside the silver box above the 50amp cord in the rear bay. If that means something to anyone out there, please share! Thanks!

[dhlairbus]

Patti
There are a lot of things that will draw down your coach batteries, but not that much to take down the chassis batt's. I had problems with my coach batteries, 4 of the 8 (all elect model) had a bad cell. Replaced under warranty, now they are all getting along fine.
I do keep the unit plugged in when not in use, that helps keep them up to speed, also have to remember to check fluid levels now and then.
Have you tried using the batt disconnect switches to isolate and try to find what the draw is?

[Romeo]

Originally Posted by Patti Brown

...continuous draw being pulled by something inside the silver box above the 50 amp cord in the rear bay. If that means something to anyone out there, please share! Thanks!

That "silver box" is probably the Transfer Switch, but I don't know what is inside that could be a continuous draw. The should be a circuit board with LEDs and two large contactors (relays). Maybe the circuit board...???

You can open the transfer switch and see if it is continuously energized when shutting down. I may have to check that on mine also since I have a 5 amp continuous draw also.

[Jim T.]

If you have an outside entertainment system or a subwoofer, check to see if they are "really" off. Mine weren't on a '13 Canyon Star.


Jim & Shirley & Abbie (Scottie)
2013 Newmar Canyon Star 3911
2005 Dodge Grand Caravan Toad

[GaryKD]

Folks, Patti is having a problem with the chassis battery not the coach battery(s). T/S and A/V components would run off the coach battery(s).

Patti,
Have you checked the electric bay to see if you have the component mentioned in your recent post? At this point in time, the only thing I can suggest it to find the automotive 12 VDC fuse buss. Pull one fuse at a time and measure the draw off the vacant fuse slot. Eventually this will lead one to the guilty circuit. Once the circuit is found, then you will need to determine the component on the circuit that is causing the draw. If you are under warranty, have a certified tech do this. Because your coach is so new, Newmar could have wire something incorrectly.

[LongDogRanch]

The Canyon Star (and I believe it's "cousin" the Bay Star) do seem to have things that continue to draw even when the battery disconnect switch is turned off. Accessories such as the Carbon Monoxide detector circuit, the power stair extender circuit and one or two others ( as Jim T. Indicated ) continue to draw.
If you have the opportunity to keep the RV plugged in it should not be a problem. Of course, it is necessary to keep the batteries up to their limits in terms of distilled water in the cells (Please don't ask me how I know!!!! Lesson learned).
The friend of the man who tested your batteries may have jumped the engine battery to the house batteries because there is a solar charger on some of these motorhome's that helps keep the engine battery maintained to sufficient levels. I would suspect that by jumping the two sets of batteries the house batteries benefitted from the connection with the solar charger. However, I personally don't feel confident in saying that this would be an advisable thing to do. Solar chargers can be great but there is a lot to learn about their technology if you are not familiar with them. Maybe someone reading this can speak to the question?
And of course you can always take your Bay Star out and at least start the generator for a while every three or four weeks. Not only can it help the batteries, it will also be great exercise for the generator. Best of luck with your Bay Star. Safe Travels.

[GaryKD]

LongDogRanch,
If there is a factory installed solar panel on the roof (standard equipment) it is to maintain (not charge) the chassis battery. It is only a 5 WATT panel. The reason to jumper the coach and chassis batteries, in this thread, would be to have the same charge going to the coach batteries also go to the chassis battery.

Patti, I am reminded to suggest you have the BIRD or BIM (whichever is now installed) checked to ensure when connected to shore power or the generator is running that the chassis battery gets its' fair share of charging.

["007"]

For years in older coach's the LP Detector was feed off the chassis battery.
The detector had a switch in display area marked LP to operate when coach was in storage.
I have no idea how your LP is now feed for 12v power and if anyone has a off switch any more.
All the CO2 and smoke detectors had their internal battery not off the 12v batteries.

[LongDogRanch]

007 it is absolutely correct that the LP detectors did have switches. We had a Class C that had one. Unfortunately, we haven't found one in the Canyon Star and I suspect it is the same for the Bay Star.
GaryKD ...engine (chassis) battery maintenance is exactly what I said in terms of the rooftop solar panel that is part of the solar charging system. While they are called solar charging systems it is the limited size of the solar panel and the related electronics that make it a "maintainer" instead of a full charger.
I would be interested in hearing from anyone who is actually using jumpers between the chassis battery and the coach (house) batteries with the idea of letting the solar unit keep all of the batteries up to proper levels.
One Example of a concern about doing this is the question of whether or not it may hurt the BIRD or BIM electronics to connect all of the RV's batteries together for this purpose? It may be perfectly OK but I don't have enough personal knowledge to feel comfortable that I won't be damaging something else in the process.

[Sky_Boss]

One thing I "discovered" this spring while replacing an alternator is the number of devices direct connected to the batteries both house and coach. I have 3 items direct connected to my chassis batteries and I haven't taken the time to figure out what they are.

In addition to the battery cut off switch in the engine compartment for the chassis batteries I also installed one for my house batteries. I also killed the salesman and LP switches in the coach. During the process of replacing the alternator with all of these switches off I could still see sparks fly when disconnecting the alternator leads and could read voltage across the leads after the alternator was removed.

It wasn't until I removed all battery connections that those leads were finally "dead". One of these days I might trace and label where these go to and then install a separate cut off switch for those direct connections.

[cvbdsl]

I have a similar problem with my chassis batteries continually drawing down, being nearly dead after two week, even with everything disconnected and turned off. This happens even when plugged in. The only time they charged is when I was driving. I came to the conclusion that the BIRD or the solenoid it controls were at fault.

Based on suggestion on this forum I added an Amp-l-Start for around 50/60 bucks that uses the house batteries to maintain the chassis batteries. Has been around 4 months now and the chassis batteries stay up. Took just a few minutes to install.

AMP-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer - Overview Page

"HOW IT WORKS - Connected between your house and engine starting batteries, AMP-L-START™ "steals" some of the charging current from your house battery charger (or solar panels) to also keep your engine starting batteries charged. Whenever no house battery charging source is present, it automatically shuts down, thereby preventing any reverse current flow back into the house batteries."

It was a cheaper fix than replacing the BIRD or solenoid.

HTH

Chris

[GaryKD]

LongDogRanch,
My comment to you was because it is difficult to understand how anyone would connect the chassis and coach batteries to "I would suspect that by jumping the two sets of batteries the house batteries benefitted from the connection with the solar charger." Since we both understand the factory solar panel is rated at 5 WATTS, we should both understand 5 WATTS will be maxed out maintaining the chassis battery(s). Connecting additional batteries to a 5 WATT panel would further dilute the panel's ability to even maintain the chassis battery(s). There would be no benefit to connect additional batteries.

Since you know all this, I just wanted to alert other members who might not be as aware of the capacity of the 5 WATT panel that connecting batteries to somehow benefit from the 5 WATT will not produce a benefit. One needs the correct additional panel capacity added to the roof.

["007"]

One Example of a concern about doing this is the question of whether or not it may hurt the BIRD or BIM electronics to connect all of the RV's batteries together for this purpose? It may be perfectly OK but I don't have enough personal knowledge to feel comfortable that I won't be damaging something else in the process.

I would say you will defeat the Bird charging set up.
As Gary said the house batterys need their on solar panels and need to be hooked up correctly.
I have a MADP in the yard with three large panels and they do not keep them charged?