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Old 05-15-2021, 06:47 PM   #1
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Need help since we dumped a Tiffin

Hello- I just joined this site hoping to find out about Newmar rv since they were acquired by Winnebago. We ordered a Tiffin last November and when it finally arrived last week, had a 4" crack in the molded countertop of dinette with pieces of sawdust and glue where they pounded it onto the cabinet. We were told it would be 8 weeks before the factory could send a new one and would require tearing apart the entire counter top and installing the new one. We told the dealer to keep it and send our deposit back. We had no idea Tiffin had been bought by Thor in December 2020 or would have cancelled the order instead of waiting 6 months for junk. Now, we see that Winnebago bought Newmar so it would be so helpful to hear from all you experienced RV'ers whether the 2020 or 2021 Newmars are lower in quality since the buyout. Really appreciate all of your experience. thanks!
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Old 05-15-2021, 07:25 PM   #2
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Just from what I've read, Winnebago is maintaining Newmar as a stand-alone factory without interference.
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Old 05-15-2021, 07:43 PM   #3
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I'm a Winnebago owner since last year. Just took my 06 coach in for some repairs and they treated me like I had just bought a brand new 2021. They are outstanding.

That said I have a friend who has an 06 Newmar, and they make the annual trek to the factory every year for repairs or maintenance. They have always raved about the service they got.

This year they took it in for some major upgrades. It spent 4 months at the factory. Some of it was upgrades, some of it was replacement of some defective siding, IN A 15 YEAR OLD COACH. And Newmar stood behind it, and while they did pay some for upgrades and a new paintjob, the again were very pleased with the service they got.

Last year I needed to upgrade from my gasser and most Newmar's were out of my budget (I missed a really great deal on an 08 Mountain Aire by 1 day) my next coach will be a Newmar or Holiday Rambler. Although I am very happy with the build quality on my Winnebago, there are a few issues I don't care for. (no pass through storage and no slide out generator)

I wouldn't worry about Newmar for the time being.
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Old 05-15-2021, 07:48 PM   #4
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I'm going to be honest. I wouldn't buy a new RV right now if it was discounted 50%. With the supply chain and labor issues coupled with high demand, it's just not a winning combination for quality.

I will admit that even pre pandemic, I always lean toward slightly used for my toys, but I really believe there are some legitimate concerns with quality across the board at this point in time.
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Old 05-15-2021, 07:56 PM   #5
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We took delivery of our DSDP at the factory one month ago. We are extremely happy with what we have. So far, it is everything a Newmar is supposed to be. They are producing solid coaches.
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Old 05-16-2021, 12:40 AM   #6
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We purchased our first coach prior to sale, and took factory delivery. We returned a year later (after the sale) for service work and upgrades. We found no difference it the quality, commitment, or professionalism of the team. We have many friends and neighbors who have new Newmar coaches and are very happy with quality and service.

We have an Entegra now, also owned by Thor. It is a high quality rig and we are very happy with it. Factory support has also been superior.

I don't discount your experience, but the Tiffin purchase is pretty recent and I'm not sure the quality issue has anything to do with Thor. There were plenty of unhappy Tiffin customers prior to the buyout due to over production, under performed QA, and Bob Tiffin not being the driving force.
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Old 05-16-2021, 03:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New2road View Post
We purchased our first coach prior to sale, and took factory delivery. We returned a year later (after the sale) for service work and upgrades. We found no difference it the quality, commitment, or professionalism of the team. We have many friends and neighbors who have new Newmar coaches and are very happy with quality and service.

We have an Entegra now, also owned by Thor. It is a high quality rig and we are very happy with it. Factory support has also been superior.

I don't discount your experience, but the Tiffin purchase is pretty recent and I'm not sure the quality issue has anything to do with Thor. There were plenty of unhappy Tiffin customers prior to the buyout due to over production, under performed QA, and Bob Tiffin not being the driving force.

+1 on changing from Tiffin to Newmar. We had an Allegro Bus for 12 years and sold it to move on to a different rig. We went to Red Bay and looked at many of the new 2020 Bus models and talked to the national sales guy (can't remember his name) about what Tiffin was changing for 2020. We toured finished models ready for dealer delivery on the "Yellow Brick Road" at the factory. We were underwhelmed. We then looked at a few other manufacturers including Newmar and Entegra. We walked through several models that we were interested in and found the Newmar models to be more to our liking on style. The dealer that carried both of them was not happy with Entegra because they had to return several unit to the factory due to so many major issues. He said they never have done that with a Newmar.


We have friends with Newmars and they have their share of quality issues to report. We also had our share with the 2008 Bus too. We ended up with a smaller coach from Newmar and while we have had our share of quality issues all have been fixed or at least attempted to be fixed over the year we have had the coach. Our biggest issues have been parts availability and getting the work done in a timely manner due to COVID-19 delays and everybody and their brother buying a RV last year with most of them seemingly in the shop with ours.



I have some bones to pick with Newmar engineers and the assembly line workers. Anything this expensive should be built with better Quality Control and Engineering. My biggest pet peeve is that no one in Customer Service can tell you where important control panels or components are located in the coach...it seems the assembly worker puts them where they want and now two do it the same way so it is always a hunting trip to find stuff. Hardly any of the wiring is labeled unlike Tiffin where every line was identified at every junction and end. The wiring in a Newmar looks like a rat's nest...very unprofessional. Our bed frame came apart on our first major trip and the wall in the hallway bowed out due to poor workmanship at the factory. They fixed it under warranty but we had to drive 4000 miles round trip to Indiana to get it fixed.



I was actually hoping that Winnebago would give Newmar a push into better manufacturing methods and more consistent assembly practices.



Overall we are pleased with our Newmar. To do it all over again we would do it again but custom order one that has less stuff we don't want or use. We got one a dealer configured so it has just about everything on it; some good stuff; some not so much.


I spent 35 years in medical manufacturing in Quality so I know what good Quality System are and what happens when you don't have them. All the major coaches we looked at in the past 20 year don't have a clue and getting them out the door broken or not and fixing then later is the way they do business.



Rant Over.
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Old 05-16-2021, 06:07 PM   #8
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I too switched from Tiffin to Newmar. Not because Tiffin sold to Thor. I firmly believe that Tiffin will operate as they have always operated, at least for a few more years. There are no more family owned RV builders in this price point. Newmar is owned by Winnie, Entegra is owned by Thor as is Tiffin.

We switched simply because Tiffin Allegro Bus was under whelming. We just could not get the buzz when we went through them. When we went through Newmar we got excited. Couple that with the fact we could make the changes we wanted and as many as we wanted, or should I say as many as we could afford. But the fact is Newmar will let you make your coach yours.
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Old 05-17-2021, 05:23 AM   #9
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I would order new Newmar Dutch Star without thinking twice


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Old 05-17-2021, 06:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR View Post



I have some bones to pick with Newmar engineers and the assembly line workers. Anything this expensive should be built with better Quality Control and Engineering. My biggest pet peeve is that no one in Customer Service can tell you where important control panels or components are located in the coach...it seems the assembly worker puts them where they want and now two do it the same way so it is always a hunting trip to find stuff. Hardly any of the wiring is labeled unlike Tiffin where every line was identified at every junction and end. The wiring in a Newmar looks like a rat's nest...very unprofessional. Our bed frame came apart on our first major trip and the wall in the hallway bowed out due to poor workmanship at the factory. They fixed it under warranty but we had to drive 4000 miles round trip to Indiana to get it fixed.

I was actually hoping that Winnebago would give Newmar a push into better manufacturing methods and more consistent assembly practices.

Rant Over.
I think you have an unrealistic view of customer service. Newmar currently produces over 12 distinct lines of coaches from the King Air and Essex all the way down to the Bay Star Sport. Within these different lines we have different models and to the different models we can add optional equipment. Do you really expect the customer service person to be able to tell you what bay or cabinet your water pump controller is located (just an example). In my case they couldn’t tell me what bay it was in, but they told me what it looked like, how many wires a are going to it. I think you may need to look at it from their point of view. Your expectations may be a little high. Every coach by line and model is wired the same way. Did you know that your New Aire went down the same line as my Bay Star, or that the same people built it? I have had nothing but excellent customer service and support for over 7 years. In all honesty, when it was publicized that Winnebago purchased Newmar, most Newmar owners were afraid that Winnebago would influence build quality. You have a very high end coach, by one of the best manufacturers in the market. To expect something this complex with all the different systems and components to be perfect when it comes off the assembly line is a little unrealistic, IMHO. There will be problems, the difference is how the problems are handled. I truly believe Newmar stands behind their products and provides the Sevice that current owners have come to expect. Are they perfect, Nope. Are they better than most of the other brands out there, Absolutely!

Off the soapbox, your turn.
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Old 05-17-2021, 08:57 AM   #11
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I don't want to derail the OP's thread with a full discussion on Customer Service and Quality of high end consumer products so let me just leave it that we disagree on how much Customer Service should know about the coaches manufactured by their company and how standardized some aspects of manufacturing should be. No one would tolerate what we do in a high end automobile costing hundreds of thousands of $$$ less than a RV.
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Old 05-17-2021, 09:31 AM   #12
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Ordered a 2022 Dutch Star and getting rid of a 2018 Allegro Bus. It’s nice Tiffin will eventually fix things, but garbage is coming off the line. They depend on their dealers to build the last 10% of the coach.
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:50 AM   #13
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I don't want to derail the OP's thread with a full discussion on Customer Service and Quality of high end consumer products so let me just leave it that we disagree on how much Customer Service should know about the coaches manufactured by their company and how standardized some aspects of manufacturing should be. No one would tolerate what we do in a high end automobile costing hundreds of thousands of $$$ less than a RV.
I had a long paragraph written to explain my position. Waste of time. Youíre wight we disagree. Hop over to the Thor, Winnebago or Coachmen forums and read about how they canít even gat somebody on the phone, or waiting months for a part. Iíll take Newmar any day. I hope you can get to the point where you get enjoyment from your coach. Safe travels!
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Old 05-17-2021, 06:53 PM   #14
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Everyone has good points here. My main issue with Newmar is I canít get a wiring diagram for my coach. They tell me every Dutch Star is unique. If thatís true, they have a serious manufacturing problem.
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