Need Opinions: 2013 Essex or 2016 Dutch Star

[chuck28f]

I assume this is like asking Ford or Chevy. We are looking for a new to us Newmar. Must be 43 or 45 ft. Must have a tag axle. Must have independent front suspension. Must have a side radiator. Prefer lower miles. I have seen some 2016 Dutch Star's priced comparable to some 2013 Essex's. The Dutch Star's I have been looking at are well equipped so they have a lot of the same options. I was wanting some opinions on which would be the best one to purchase all things considered. We are relatively new to the RV world as we bought a 2004 Holiday Rambler about a 1 1/2 year ago and then traded for a 2009 American Tradition last fall that we had to return due to the dealer not being able to produce the title. We won't be living in it fulltime. Just myself and lovely young bride of 44 years. Maybe 10,000 miles a year. Maybe a week per month and hopefully some time south in the winter. I always worry about resale value. Hopefully keeping it 5 to 7 years.

Dutch Star:
Star chassis
Freightliner chassis
450 HP engine
3000 transmission
Specs show 39,000 lbs
315 tires on steer axle
Passive steer tag axle
Bigger place for stinky slinky
Manual slide on generator
10,000 watt generator
Footrest on driver seat
Passenger seat fold out work table
Manual outside window awnings
Emergency access door in rear bath
Taller ceiling in rear bath
Stand alone operating systems
No carpet
Possibly needing steer axle update and full wall slide updated supports.

Essex:
Spartan K2 chassis
500 hp engine
4000 transmission
Specs show 43550 lbs
365 steer tires
Power slide on generator
12,500 watt generator
Air and hydraulic leveling
Power outside window awnings
Manabloc style water shutoffs
Silverleaf to operate systems
Carpet in slides
More storage in basement

Let's assume that they would both have been garage kept, both in excellent condition, both have floor plans that we could live with, tile in bedroom, heated floors, power blinds and shades, all electric, outside entertainment sytem, agm batteries, stacked washer and dryer, king sleep number bed, energy MGM, central vac, power cord reel, power water hose reel, slide trays in basement, outside freezer, dishwasher, and dual girard nova awnings.

I assume either chassis is ok, although I am not a Freightliner fan.
Dutch Star with 450 hp is about 86.6 lbs per hp compared to Essex 500 hp being about 87.1 lbs per hp if I figured it correctly, so about the same.
I assume that 365 steer tires may ride better but are carrying more weight on the Essex.
Passive tag axle should be nice but more upkeep. Better tire wear.
Bigger place for stinky slinky would be a plus. I prefer a macerator but carry a stinky slinky anyway.
Power slide on generator would be nice but no big deal except cleaning windshield.
I assume 10,000 or 12,000 watt generator is not a problem.
Footrest on driver seat and passenger seat work table would be a plus.
Power window awnings might be nice but more to go wrong.
Emergency access door in rear bath would be safer.
Since I am height challenged, taller rear bath ceiling is no big deal.
Silverleaf operating system scares me as I am technology disavantaged, or if something goes wrong, everything could stop working.
Air and hydraulic leveling systems would be nice.
Manabloc system would be nice if a leak developed or I could shut off icemaker as we never use it.
It would be nice to not have any carpet.
I think it is more likely that a 2013 has had the tires and batteries replaced than a 2016.
I assume that the upholstery is more likely to be coming apart on the 2016 than the 2013.
More storage in basement would be a plus.

The information I get off of IRV2 is fantastic and I greatly appreciate the help.

[TonyDi]

I used to have an '05 Dutch Star and loved it. Two years ago I bought my LA which is in the same class with the Essex. I love it even more. You would be happy with either one. My choice would be the Essex.

[R.Wold]

Where the Essex will shine performance wise is torque: 26/1 vs DS at 31/1 lbs to pdft. Also the 4000 trans. But that would only matter if you plan to tow heavy.

The rest is a matter of taste. I’d have trouble walking away from a slightly older Essex given the same mileage, maintenance records, and price. But a well optioned Dutch Star will of course be very satisfying and they both perform the same function.

One thing that scares me off is complexity, which is why I dumped the New Aire idea and went for a simple older high-option Ventana (I’m sill staying under 35’ for the next 5-10 years). My son tells me all that multiplex stuff is great but I don’t understand it so I don’t want to be responsible for it, just like power window awnings and blinds. Great when they are working, but....

Sounds like you have this pretty well figured out already.

[chuck28f]

I am leaning towards the Essex but the Dutch Star is a very nice coach.

The Silverleaf worries me a little bit as I do most of my own maintenance and it would be easier to work on individual systems.

I won't be towing heavy but it worries me trying to get the hp and torque out of a small 8.9 ISL. I would assume that getting the hp and torque out of the bigger ISX 12 would not strain the engine as much.

As always I have to over think everything.

If I could get what I want, it would be an older pre DEF with 1200 HP and 4000 lbs of torque but I can't find one!

Thanks for the help, Chuck

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by chuck28f

I am leaning towards the Essex but the Dutch Star is a very nice coach.

The Silverleaf worries me a little bit as I do most of my own maintenance and it would be easier to work on individual systems.

I won't be towing heavy but it worries me trying to get the hp and torque out of a small 8.9 ISL. I would assume that getting the hp and torque out of the bigger ISX 12 would not strain the engine as much.

As always I have to over think everything.

If I could get what I want, it would be an older pre DEF with 1200 HP and 4000 lbs of torque but I can't find one!

Thanks for the help, Chuck

I have a 2012 Essex, it is a machine! the ISX12 throws it down the road like a sports car! The Hadley suspension control is priceless

[USMCRET]

Here’s how I look at this conundrum, and I was in the same one this time last year.

For probably 90+% of us, the majority of one’s time is spent stationary. That turns the focus to the motorhome’s house. What starts out in the luxury lineup, usually works it way to the lower echelons in the span of a few years. So, if you purchase a newer model from the lower end, it contains many features that were in the higher end a few years earlier.

Any of these machines are capable of climbing the highest mountains. They aren’t Maseratis, but they will get you there.

I would go with the newer DS.

[2cyber71]

If it was me knowing what you have posted all else equal.
I would buy the Essex with out a doubt if the price is similar.
My criteria is always, floor plan is #1 everything else is secondary.
It’s the main reason I bought all my RVs.
If I ever hit the lottery I would trade my Horizon for an new Essex.

[chuck28f]

Hadley air controls would be nice as well as 500 hp.

The 2013 Dutch Star is a very nice coach.

The Essex is a really really nice coach!

Decisions, decisions!

Thanks for all of the opinions, Chuck

[clawsonbob]

Like USMCRET above, we too were in a similar situation a while ago, and were contemplating a MountainAire that was a couple yrs older than the Dutch Star we decided on. Both were one owner coaches, both stored indoors, both had complete service records and both had fastidious owners. Both could have passed for new, but the DS had 9k miles and the MA 45k. We would have saved a lot of money going with that beautiful MA. I mean A LOT. But as USMCRET also noted, all of the luxuary features we liked in the MA (sleep no mattress, power bay door locks, Heated floors etc) were all in the DS we bought. Heck, the DS also has upgraded MA floor tile, upholstery and fabrics. Same floor plan but the newer DS had a bigger shower. For our plans, including anticipated driving miles, resale and maintenance, the 9k DS made more sense. That said, if both were truly equal, we probably would be enjoying the MA as much as our DS.

Now for the real world. No two used rigs are truly equal. Mileage, maintenance, floor plans, prior owner care/cleanliness, tire/battery ages, are all gonna be at least slightly different. So are color/decor/floor plan preferences. So if you’re lucky enough to stumble into the unreal world of everything being exactly equal, just go with the one you like. They’re both great choices. One thing you should be aware of however, is the 2016 Dutch Star went through some changes with the full slide systems, adding weight, running into both some mechanical hjc ups and front axle Weight limitation issues. I’ll try to add a link to a recent thread which covers some of those things you should be on the lookout in a 2016 dutch star. I would also go out on a limb and say the more powerful drivetrain of the Essex will be partially, if not mostly, offset by the additional weight of the larger engine, going from an Allison 3000 to 4000 transmission, as well as the weight of extra steel, tile and wood. Put a big toad on either, they both will slow down on big hills, a drag race will likely be a coin toss, and they’ll both get about 7 MPG, plus or minus.

Flame suit on for comments to follow. ��

Update: Here is the thread I mentioned that covers a few of the things to be aware of with a 2016 DS.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/loo...-a-522480.html

[chuck28f]

Thanks clawsonbob. You are precisely correct. As I have not looked at either one, and that I have been lied to before, they both should be very similar.

I was just thinking out loud and wanting some other opinions which I greatly appreciate!

As soon as the snow melts and daughter improves from shoulder surgery, so we can give grandkids back, we will have to take a look at them. I assume after looking at both of them, the decision will be easier.

Thanks, Chuck

[Rd1]

Originally Posted by chuck28f

2016 Dutch Star's priced comparable to some 2013 Essex's..

the 2016 and 2017 newmar models with the HWH fws had issues. though newmar had some kinda fix, it never resolved the issue fully. the bedroom side sagged down.


The freightliner chassis with passive steer had a tag axle out of center from the onset (late 2015) through 2017 model years. Though there was supposedly some kinda fix!!!.. I am on my 4th set of tag tires in about 58k miles. to learn more about these issues and various problems/recalls/etc related to both units you are considering, review Newmar's bulletins page



If you haven't already, you can also check the newmar list of recalls, PIBs etc.. to compare the two units


on top of the main page look for the sticky post;
IMPORTANT Information for NEWMAR OWNERS

then

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETINS

next page;
COM_NET NETWORK LINK

HELP & REFERENCE
PARTS & WARRANTY REFERENCE
then pick;
BULLETINS


from there you can select the year and model of unit you are looking at to see what recalls, PIBs have been issued for your unit.

[Capt. Bill]

Recheck that Spartan chassis - I think it should be a K-3?

I would go with the Essex- bigger heavier coach with more amenities.

Happy Trails

[Coral]

We have a 2015 Essex and love all the features the Luxury line offers. I am pretty sure that year has the K2 chassis and not the K3. But they did switch to K3 as mine has it. Silverleaf works great and there is nothing to be worried about with it. Silverleaf Electronics provides great support "if" you have problems. There is a Facebook group for Newmar Luxury Line owners that has over 500+ coach owners and is a great resource.

[chuck28f]

I only thought I had done a lot of research. You all really showed me I had not done near enough. I can't thank you all enough for all of the help!!! From all the responses here and my private messeges.

I did not know that I could find out so much information on: IMPORTANT Information for NEWMAR OWNERS!

I also assumed that the passive steer axle would be great. At least I am really good at being wrong! I would really be upset to go thru 4 sets of tires on my tag axle. I had a customer at my truck garage that had a feed truck with 2 passive tag axles, from what I remember, he got along pretty good on his tire wear but that was 10 years ago.

I will check on what chassis the 2013 Essex uses.

The next time I am on facebook, I will check out the Newmar Owners Group.

NOTE to self: Find out how to get on facebook!!!

The Essex sounds like a lot better coach.

Again thanks for all of the help, Chuck