New Denso Starter - Cummins ISM 500

[bruceisla]

I have been experiencing slow starts (low cranking RPM). Checked the bats (1 year old). Cleaned the connections (including whatever grounds I could find). Along with the slow (or no) start, I observed high charge rate from charger after 1 attempt. After reading a few threads (including some truck sites) that describe the same problem, I decided to replace the starter with a new Denso reduction drive starter. After reviewing several photos/drawings/application charts and threads, I went with the Denso 428000-4430 .... this is not the starter listed in the application chart but seems to have a better orientation of the flange/mounting holes. It fits perfectly.


NOTE: The Denso mounts in an inverted position compared to the Delco ... the Denso motor is on the bottom and the reduction drive is on top. This is correct orientation with the drains facing down.



It works perfectly and solved my starting problems. Charge rate after a start is now normal (around 4 amps for a short time).


Installation is a dirty job !!! Nothing unusual for a starter replacement .... you'll need a long 1/2" breaker bar, a 5/8" 12 point socket, a long and short extension, a bunch of cable ties and some misc. tools.


GROUND CONNECTIONS: I cleaned up the grounds at 2 locations near the starter (1 on the frame and 1 on the engine block). There are multiple wires on each ground post ... some rather large cables .... maybe 2/0 (didn't measure ... just guessing). NOTE: there are also multiple large cables on the starter ground post. One will probably go back to the batteries but others probably feed other locations.

[bruceisla]

More starter and ground pics:





[img]http://www.irv2.com/attachments/photopost/data/1819/IMG_1113small.JPG[/img

[Buly]

Very good move to get a geared starter. I had similar problem with hard starts using direct drive starter on my plane. It was very sensitive to voltage. Changed to geared starter, and never had any problems after that.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by Buly

Very good move to get a geared starter. I had similar problem with hard starts using direct drive starter on my plane. It was very sensitive to voltage. Changed to geared starter, and never had any problems after that.

Thanks! BTW, for those considering a replacement, cost was $296 with free shipping, no core charge, labor was mine. Can't guess at labor charge because I spent a lot of time cleaning up ground connections.

[FORTRIDER]

Thanks for the pictures and great info. Currently mine is working normal but hope this goes into the tips for use later on.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by FORTRIDER

Thanks for the pictures and great info. Currently mine is working normal but hope this goes into the tips for use later on.

Thanks! My issue developed slowly over a 12 month period. Eventually it took 2 - 5 start cycles (slow crank without starting for a few seconds ... then short rest period) before the Cummins would start.

[Mr_D]

I bought a Denso starter for my ISX. Turns out it hit the CC DynoMax frame and the shop recommended I not install it. Guess I'll limp along with the OEM starter. If I had a Spartan or FL chassis there would have been no problem but CC built the chassis so the frame rails are different.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

I bought a Denso starter for my ISX. Turns out it hit the CC DynoMax frame and the shop recommended I not install it. Guess I'll limp along with the OEM starter. If I had a Spartan or FL chassis there would have been no problem but CC built the chassis so the frame rails are different.

I'm guessing 1 of the 3 flange configurations would fit. Each configuration rotates a bit. The 4430 hangs straight down on a ISM 500. The 4420 would be closer to the frame and farther from the engine pan. The Denso does hang lower than the Delco. There is a new Delco with gear reduction that is a sub for the old Delco ... in the pics it looks a little taller (due to the SMI attachment) than the old Delco. The P/N is 61003201.
61003201 39MT New Starter | Product Details | Delco Remy

[Dav L]

Nice documentation!!! I will keep this thread in mind for future.
I see the geared starter as low as $150...When I looked at my OE starter, the first thing I thought was $$$$s. This is more in line with an auto starter from O'Reillys.

Glad I don't need to really know, but I don't quite understand where the "$30K" goes that users have posted on their DP engine rebuilds. Other than "RV markup for the unwary".

Now, if I could find replacement ball joints and control arm bushings for O'Reilly like pricing...that would be nice...

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by Dav L

Nice documentation!!! I will keep this thread in mind for future.
I see the geared starter as low as $150...When I looked at my OE starter, the first thing I thought was $$$$s. This is more in line with an auto starter from O'Reillys.

Glad I don't need to really know, but I don't quite understand where the "$30K" goes that users have posted on their DP engine rebuilds. Other than "RV markup for the unwary".

Now, if I could find replacement ball joints and control arm bushings for O'Reilly like pricing...that would be nice...

Thanks!
You may be looking at the price for a Denso clone .... make sure its a genuine Denso. Cheapest I could find was $296 although there were clones using the same part number for less. Didn't want to take the risk since labor is a bummer !!

[vito.a]

Wow, great information here. This could help even more folks in the Cummins section.
Thanks for posting the pictures.

[SAS30]

Thanks for a great post. Had the original starter on my '14 Anthem go out at 7k miles. Seems that Spartan had a bad batch of what they call "soft start" starters. If they had not replaced it under warranty, I would have used a ND starter. I worked as mechanic for UPS for 18 years. They finally wised up and started using ND starters as replacements on their delivery vehicles. Had less than 5 failures during the time I was there. On 30 trucks that ran every day, with most of them stopping and restarting constantly. Would say that ND builds a great starter.
Just an FYI from an experienced ND user.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by bruceisla

Thanks!
You may be looking at the price for a Denso clone .... make sure its a genuine Denso. Cheapest I could find was $296 although there were clones using the same part number for less. Didn't want to take the risk since labor is a bummer !!

My ISX top end only rebuild was over $33,000. I know of another that went over $40,000 and didn't touch the lower end.

[Dav L]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

My ISX top end only rebuild was over $33,000. I know of another that went over $40,000 and didn't touch the lower end.

That's a lot of change. How much was parts vs. labor?