Community Forums

joes2901 · 05-26-2015, 01:58 AM

The battery bay shown by newmarpusher's post above sure looks inviting for 8 Lifeline 400 AH GPL-L16Ts which would give 1600 AH of battery power and weigh about 960 pounds. That is enough weight to think about hanging them between the frame rails for weight balance and to have all that compartment space free for other stuff. Has anyne talked to the service dept. about them installing Lifelines in a custom location with 2 inverters in the days after your Newmar factory delivery?

If Newmar does not want the additional profit there is a place a block or two away on US 6 from Newmar's street and they do solar and inverters. I can imagine how much better an all electric coach would be with 2 inverters for 240 volts for the electric dryer and GE Advantium oven. Plus, 2 inverter/chargers could produce about 250 amps for recharging the battery bank in half the generator run time.

Deek · 05-26-2015, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newmarpusher

For anyone with AGM's from the factory, remember to check the Magnum inverter/charger settings. I had to set the inverter to "AGM 2" since the factory and the dealer both left it set at the flooded setting. According to the Magnum manual, "AGM 1" is for Lifeline AGM's, all other AGM's use setting "AGM 2". Newmar uses Discovery brand AGM's.

Btw, I have the AGS and Energy Management options, so not sure if those settings are the same without those options.

Newmarpusher --

Many thanks for this reference -- very helpful to know.

Deek

andyh · 05-26-2015, 12:16 PM

Deek, very good suggestion. With Discover AGMs it is important to set the charger to AGM2. The standard "Flooded Cell" setting sets an "Equalization" voltage so high that if somebody accidentally starts that cycle, the batteries could fry. You can further optimize the charging parameters with the "Custom" battery setting, but set the Equalization voltage to the Absorption Charge voltage, not more then 14.5V.
by the way, Lifeline batteries should be set at AGM1,

Miramichi · 05-27-2015, 06:57 AM

First off, excuse my ignorance on this topic with regard to the RV industry.

Why are coach builders transitioning from wet cell to AGM and not adopting superior LithiumIon technology? They at lighter, more powerful, can withstand thousands of deep discharges and can be manufactured to virtually any dimensions.

As mentioned earlier, I would consider retro fitting under the chassis some where. Oh and did I mention, you can buy LithiumIon for around the same price as AGM now. I would say LithiumIon could even be considered "yesterday's" power solution. I am excited to see the advancement of fuel cell technology.

My two cents.

PDR John · 05-27-2015, 07:42 AM

If you spend some time digging into what it takes to switch the lithium ion, you will understand why it will be years before the industry changes.

The changer will come when somebody makes a battery pack vrs individual batteries.

Steve Ownby · 05-27-2015, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miramichi

First off, excuse my ignorance on this topic with regard to the RV industry.

Why are coach builders transitioning from wet cell to AGM and not adopting superior LithiumIon technology? They at lighter, more powerful, can withstand thousands of deep discharges and can be manufactured to virtually any dimensions.

As mentioned earlier, I would consider retro fitting under the chassis some where. Oh and did I mention, you can buy LithiumIon for around the same price as AGM now. I would say LithiumIon could even be considered "yesterday's" power solution. I am excited to see the advancement of fuel cell technology.

My two cents.

Here is an interesting read on LIon in a coach:

http://www.aboutrving.com/category/l...ion-batteries/

Steve Ownby
Full time since '07

HighwayRanger · 05-27-2015, 08:42 PM

We are also in the process of ordering a new 4369. The upgrade to AGM batteries is an absolute no-brainer for us. I need to find out what brand of AGM batteries they will install, as I am a big fan of Lifeline AGM batteries. Not sure if they will allow that much of a special, but I hope they do!

Roy

newmarpusher · 05-27-2015, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighwayRanger

We are also in the process of ordering a new 4369. The upgrade to AGM batteries is an absolute no-brainer for us. I need to find out what brand of AGM batteries they will install, as I am a big fan of Lifeline AGM batteries. Not sure if they will allow that much of a special, but I hope they do!

Roy

Newmar uses Discover Energy brand AGM's. I've read here that others were unable to get them substituted with Lifelines.

Discover Energy is very big in solar applications. They are NOT inexpensive. I am a Lifeline fan as well but from all I've read, I expect similar performance from the Discover AGM's Newmar installed in our 2015 Ventana 4037.

HighwayRanger · 05-28-2015, 07:06 PM

Thanks. We'll go with the Discover batteries then. Should be good.

Roy

rvnavigator · 05-28-2015, 08:55 PM

We have an all electric DS with 8 batteries. I recently swapped out the standard 2800 watt Magnum inverter for the newer Magnum 3000 Hybrid inverter and will be swapping out the batteries for single LithiumIon from AM Solar within the year.
The hybrid inverter has the ability to add to the shore power to give you more available power. Thus 30 amp shore power (a definite limitation) becomes 60 amp usable power (when the inverter kicks in its 30 amps). Other inverters only provide power when the shore power is off. This makes your inverter a much more useful device.
A single lithium battery unit of the capacity needed to replace 8 6 voters weights in at 112 pounds verses 67 per battery x 8 and in the space of about 2 6 volt batteries.
Although this battery currently costs $3200, it will never need to be replaced, never needs service, and will retain its full power for life. Just buying a second set of AGMs in a few years will offset this addition upfront cost.

My suggestion is to add solar, upgrade the inverter, and get the standard batteries. When those batteries give out, replace them with a single lithium replacement.

I am ¾ of the way through this process - if only the lead acid batteries would die I could finish the process. When all is said and done, lead acid batteries work well if well managed.

kw

newmarpusher · 05-28-2015, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvnavigator

... When all is said and done, lead acid batteries work well if well managed.

kw

... And that is the key advantage of the AGM's, no "managing" required. I've got enough hobbies, taking care of batteries isn't one of them.

Also your battery compartment will never get rusty like it does from the out gassing, leaking and spilling that occurs with flooded batteries.

The LiO batteries look interesting. Curious, if a single lithium ion battery only takes up the space of two normal batteries, why not add more?

HighwayRanger · 05-28-2015, 09:10 PM

Ken, does the MSH3012M hybrid inverter require a different wiring scheme than the MS2812?

I wonder if Newmar would install the hybrid on a special instead of the 2812? If there is a significant installation difference, I doubt they would want to take it on. At some point, I believe the hybrid will be standard on the high line rigs, then it would wind up in the lower end coaches. But until that day comes, I'm not sure whether or not they would allow the swap.

Roy

newmarpusher · 05-28-2015, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighwayRanger

Ken, does the MSH3012M hybrid inverter require a different wiring scheme than the MS2812?

I wonder if Newmar would install the hybrid on a special instead of the 2812? If there is a significant installation difference, I doubt they would want to take it on. At some point, I believe the hybrid will be standard on the high line rigs, then it would wind up in the lower end coaches. But until that day comes, I'm not sure whether or not they would allow the swap.

Roy

Also interested in the swap. Is is a direct plug and play replacement of the MSH3012M for the MS2812? Or is there more involved. Thx.

andyh · 05-29-2015, 06:06 AM

The Precision Circuit Power Monitor supplied by Newmar will supplement the AC power required for short periods of time, such as using a microwave, by 1st reducing the charge rate. If that is not sufficient, it will turn on the inverter to assist.
With the standard inverter wiring, the supported equipment and outlets are wired to a sub panel, with its on main circuit breaker. High power appliances such as roof ACs, washing machines and dryers are not wired to the main panel. If you want to run the heavy loads with the hybrid inverter, you need to change the the wiring. If you want 30A support from your hybrid inverter from a 400AH battery lithium ion battery for long periods of time while plugged in to a 30A supply, when are you going to charge the batteries?