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Old 02-01-2010, 09:39 PM   #1
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Newmar Intellitec EMS Option

We are in an RV park in Tucson and are having an electrical issue where our Newmar provided EMS by Intellitec (which is to shed loads when on less than 50A service to maintain within the 30 or 20 amp limits) shuts off the power. Now, we also have a Progressive EMS in front of the the Newmar EMS that says power is OK, i.e., 115v with no other issues. Power will be off for a bit then come back on. We are currently on 30A service and haven't been running anything excessive for it to be shedding any loads. However it has been shutting off when we run the coffee pot or the Splendide dryer where the total draw shows to be 15 to 20 amps.

We aren't sure what the deal is and think there could be a problem with the EMS itself since we haven't seen this issue before. The question is, is there a way to bypass this Intellitec EMS to rule it in or out of the problem bucket? We have been thru the docs, but can't see where this could be done. However, it seems to be a BIG problem if it is a problem and you can't bypass it.

Thanks in advance for your knowledge.
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:17 AM   #2
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DonnaB, the only way I know of to bypass the EMS for sure is to rewire the panel. Basically, you take the load control relays out of the circuit. If you are at all uncomfortable with working with 120VAC, please let an electrician or RV repair tech do this.

But there is an easier way to figure out what's wrong. Basically, if all power is cut off it is not the EMS by Intellitec, it is the Progressive EMS thinking the power is bad. If it is the Progressive, when the problem occurs the Intellitec's 30Amp light on the display will go out, and you won't have any power to any of your outlets (the outlets for the coffee pot, bath, TV, etc). If you have power to those outlets, it is most likely the Intellitec EMS causing the problem.

If the Progressive is cutting off the power, you need to make sure the power is good before you blame the Progressive EMS. To do this measure the voltage with a good DMM and add the loads that normally cause the problem. If the voltage gets around 108V that is the problem, the unit is acting as designed. If your Progressive EMS has a display you can verify the display Voltage reading matches the DMM reading (within a few volts) as well.

I was just reading this post: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f52/progr...-56983.html#14, they mention that Progressive has great customer service and if you do find it is miscalibrated they will give you instructions to calibrate it.

If you find it is the Intellitec EMS you can bypass it as follows:

First cut all AC power the the coach including inverters, then open the EMS distribution panel. Your Intellitec Installation manual should help you identify the wires you must move to bypass the loads. Using page 15 of this manual as an example:

http://www.intellitec.com/PDF/5300684.200.pdf

To bypass whatever load is on the BRKR#4 and RELAY#4, you would remove the two wires from those terminals and connect the wire that goes to the load directly to the breaker, possibly by connecting the two wires together with a twist-on wire nut.

Note these are 120VAC wires and some carry 15A so use appropriate wire sizes and connectors. Also not you must be able to put everything back together so make good notes and make sure the wires will be long enough (for example if you have to cut some off because you used a twist connector to make the bypass connection and it broke the wire when you were untwisting it).

The Air Conditioners are a little more complicated, they connect to J4 in this diagram, you must determine whether the NO or NC terminals are used (along with the COM) and short or unshort the wires going to them appropriately. These are 12V wires so they don't need to be insulated as well, a few wraps of electrical tape will do.

Good Luck!
Stewart
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:24 AM   #3
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Donna do you have a by-pass switch on the Progressive, EMS may than work as designed. If everyone is using AC's in park they may not be able to supply the amperage for the load.
It may help to cut off one of your AC's also.
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:07 AM   #4
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Hi Donna,
Like those who have posted, my view is the Progressive unit is cutting the power. The clue is that the OP mentions the power returns in a few minutes. The problem could be with the CG or with the unit or that the Progressive cut off voltage and this CG may not be getting along. Progressive units cut the power at a higher voltage (I think it is 103 VAC) than can be tolerated by this CG.

If you are going to be in a 30 AMP power environment for quite a bit of time, consider a voltage regulator in addition to what you now have. A sample of a voltage regulator is at Voltage Regulator | Technology Research Corporation. I have the 50 AMP model of this product.

A voltage regulator will adjust the voltage and AMPS to keep the ratio correct for the WATTs being drawn by the coach. It does not make power. It does not draw power from the rest of the CG. The unit mentioned above draws a maximum of 1 AMP of your 30 AMPs to operate. Voltage regulators are good to have in the situation mentioned in the OP.
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:00 PM   #5
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Thanking you all for your responses. For whatever reason this was such a problem last night, but today no issues. I do know it is not the Progressive cutting out the power. We are quite confident of how the Progressive works and have a 2nd display in the living area and watch the voltage and any error messages on in in real time. It has dropped everything off the first night we were here with a low voltage code, but not in the last 2 days. When the Intellitec EMS goes dark (literally) the Progressive shows no error messages and 115+ volts showing on both L1 & L2. We have never seen the power off on the Progressive display when the Intellitec goes dark. That is why we thought possibly it could be a problem with the Intellitec EMS.

However today we are unclear of anything. It appears that to take the Intellitec out of the mix is a LOT more than we want to do if it isn't needed. It is also looking like there is possibly nothing wrong with our stuff and maybe it is the park electric / wiring / voltage / etc. Since everything has worked flawlessly today, we will wait & see.

And, to those who said turn off one AC.....we have had no ACs working in this mix as it is quite cool in Tucson and they aren't needed. We have run the furnace (AH) in the mornings as it is too cold for nothing and we've been afraid to dig out the electric space heaters or turn on the heatpumps with the electric problems up to now.

So now we are waiting to see what develops next. Today we used the washer/dryer and convection oven with no problems. Our fingers are crossed.
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:57 AM   #6
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OK, well when you are really, really sure that you "know" something...maybe you should step back sometimes Just to take the Progressive out of the trouble bucket, it is now bypassed.....everything works fine and the Intellitec EMS works as it is supposed to. Since the Intellitec only sheds loads when you go over 30 amp and we aren't doing that, no load shedding testing done at this point.

However, called Progressive and they are sending another main circuit board for us to install. Was hard to convince Progressive that it could be their product as it never showed an error and always showed the proper voltage. But, it never showed there was no power, even when it had been cut off, so something there not right.

Thanks again for your helpful suggestions and hope this fixes if for good.
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:45 AM   #7
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one other suggestion to consider is the AC to DC converter in the rig.

My EMS was acting strange, shedding loads, indicating wrong supply type (30 A vs 50A) and after some searching on this site, found the solution to be that the junk Parrallax converter was "bleeding" AC voltage to the DC output side of the converter.

The first DC supplied device in the MH to be affected by this problem was the EMS.

I got a replacement converter under warranty and problem solved.

Have since replaced that dumb converter with a smart IOTA converter.

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Old 02-04-2010, 09:29 AM   #8
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If you need someone in Tucson to consult with, call Joseph @ LaMesa 520 807-7269. He and Scott help me out of difficult situations on several occasions.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:45 PM   #9
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Newmar Intellitec EMS Option

Sounds like we are having the same problems. I have a call into the person that installed it for me. Please post what you discovered is wrong.
Bob
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Sounds like we are having the same problems. I have a call into the person that installed it for me. Please post what you discovered is wrong.
Bob
Bob, yesterday we ran an extension down 2 sites to be able to use a different outlet and re-engaged the Progressive. Last night we had the same problems. We would watch the Progressive display and could see that the voltage was dropping rather low, then any time there was usage of up to 25 amps the Intellitec EMS would go dark, but the Progressive only once showed a low voltage error and never indicated power had been cut off.....but it had. We weren't really running anything to pull that much other than the electric element on the water heater and the charger would kick in.

Went out and again bypassed the Progressive and all has been good since. We are waiting on a new control board being shipped to us by Progressive and will let you know if that fixes. Fortunately we are still within the 3 year warranty on it, so their nickel, not ours.
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:48 PM   #11
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Hi Donna,
Smart work on your part. Congrats on the diagnostics you've done.
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:49 PM   #12
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Well, those diagnostics continue. Last night while the Progressive was bypassed, we watched more bizaare behavior on the Intellitec and the inverter displays. The inverter would flash INVERTING briefly then BULK CHARGING. Now there was the electric element on the AH on and the convection oven was running. It would do this any time it got up to about 25-26 amps. So power was cutting out even though the EMS never went dark. Guessing momentary loss only. Cut off the electric element to reduce the amp draw and that stopped the flaky behavior.

Now we are looking at the transfer switch, but we are still befuddled at this. Today the Progressive is back on and we haven't had any issues, but the dinner hour approaches, which is when this has occurred all week.
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:21 PM   #13
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Sounds like you picked up some bad Juju in Mexico.

Are all of these problems at this one park?
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Old 02-06-2010, 09:43 PM   #14
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DonnaB...Might I suggest you let us move this thread to the RV Systems & Appliances since the Intellitec is a RV system installed in many different brands? (I know the Progressive unit is an Aftermarket part - but many Mods/Admins tend to lump aftermarktet parts into the above mentioned forum.)
You might get a few more answers from people who have experienced what you are describing. (I am actually surprised that Route 66 didn't already move it there himself.)

Good Luck finding a solution...although the best solution might be to leave that park...



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