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Old 04-14-2016, 09:16 AM   #1
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Newmar reveals proper fix for DS FA Overload problem

For those of us who have unfortunately been affected and involved in this problem, we now know that Newmar engineering has determined that 40' Dutch Stars with the HWH slide out mechanism and tile on the full wall slide out apparently needs 17000 lb FA configurations. Why else would they offer the 2017 Dutch Star with a 17000 lb FA with 315 tires? There certainly is no significant weight difference between a 2016 and 2017 which would mandate such a change, the units side by side weight wise are basically the same. And if the FA Overload problem had not come up on the 2016s, Newmar would have had no reason and certainly would not have made this change on the 2017s, so the argument this is a "normal life cycle upgrade" doesn't hold water, its just sales pitch spin......IMHO Newmar needs to acknowledge their own engineering mistake, be accountable and demonstrate through their actions that they truly support the products they produce, they truly have their customers back and fix the 2016 models just as they have fixed the 2017s. As a current 2016 owner, that is my expectation. I have shared my expectations with Newmar in e-mails to them over the past couple of weeks. I have also asked them to respond with a reasonable and plausible explanation if their decision is not to fix the 2016s with the same fix they are offering for the 2017s. No response yet.....I think this lack of responsiveness to their customers is part of a messaging problem another poster addressed earlier. Newmar should learn to get out in front of these problems quickly letting the customer know they are working the problem, assure their customers they have their back and let their customer know the problems will be fixed to the customer's satisfaction. If you are a current 2016 DS owner (40' or 43') I'm hopeful you will join me and contact Newmar (Phone or e-mail) and insist they fix our units like they have fixed the 2017s.

Allen
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Old 04-14-2016, 11:40 AM   #2
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Hi wam16,
Newmar is doing much of what you asked. What more do you want? They are providing a 17K axle retro fit for the 16 coaches at no coast to the owner. This was not mandated by the government or any ther governing body.

Your supposition that if a problem had not surfaces on the 16s the 17s would not have had the 17K axle. How do you know this? For me you are just flailing arms and yelling fire.

They are supporting the products they produce. Retrofitting the 16s is quite a cost to Newmar. None of this cost is being passed onto the customer. To me this is support for their products.

Enough is enough. The no cost retro fit for the 16s is more than proof that Newmar supports its products. Once installed, weigh your coach. Then compare it to other Brand coaches of the same size and price point. I think you will be surprised.

One final mention. I do not disparage SOB. If you think about it, no another Brand has made any attempt to reference this situation. To take advantage of it. Not at the Brand level, not at the sales level and not at the dealer level. Why do you think that is so? I know the answer, but I'll let you decide.
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Old 04-14-2016, 12:28 PM   #3
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Gary,
Newmar is not offering a 17K axle for 2016 40' models, they are offering a 15400 lb axle. However, they are offering a 17K for 40' 2017 models for which I have seen no reason to do so other than to fix the overload problem due to the addition of the HWH full wide slide mechanism, full wall slide out tile and the STAR foundation which were rolled out in 2016 and all of these features are still on the 2017s. Based on what I have seen, no other significant options/weight have been added to the 2017s that would require them to increase the FA GAWR to 17K. If 17K IS necessary for the 2017s, it is my argument Newmar should offer the same for the 2016s. I realize this is a very contentious issue especially for those of us who are personally affected. For those of you who are not directly affected it is easy for you to have your own opinions and we all certainly have the right to have our own opinions. Please remember, what is important when there is disagreement, first respect that disagreement, and when agreement cannot be reached, simply agree to disagree and move on.

Allen
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:19 PM   #4
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Well said wam16.
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Old 04-14-2016, 02:00 PM   #5
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Hi wam16,
I guess we will agree to disagree. From what I know the 14K axle is not overloaded. Newmar is offering more #s of axle weight carrying capability that may not even be needed. But they are doing it anyway. Consider getting the upgrade and having your coach weighted. Then go from there. One can not complain about something that has yet to happen.

I was affected by two problems with my coach that have cost me dearly. Fiberglass checking and basement door delamination. Newmar helped on the fiberglass checking problem but it still cost me $15.5K out of my own pocket. There was no help on the basement doors delaminating. This has cost me thousands. I must be very careful with the doors and opening them during direct sun light. However, you don't see me whining about reality. Here you are whining about something that has yet to happen.

My apology if I offended you. It is time to get the facts. The facts will come after the upgrade and getting the coach weighed. Quite a few engineers with the skill and certifications have come up with the solution. Once completed if you can prove otherwise, then go for it. Otherwise it is time to move on.
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:08 AM   #6
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If they don't the Government would love this case
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:32 AM   #7
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wam16...quick question. How did you find out your FA is overloaded? I assume you're basing this from the results of weighing your properly loaded coach at a CAT or other certified scale. What are the front, rear, and tag axle weights? Trying to quantify what "overloaded" means. Thanks.
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:24 PM   #8
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HambonesBBQ,
I had the coach weighed at a CAT scales, full water, full fuel and Angel and I. Did not have all of the items in coach we normally travel with, but did have most, also with our son and one of his friends we would be overloaded on the front axle. No problem on drive or tag axles.

Allen
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:33 PM   #9
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Newmar DOES stand behind their products!
Our '02 DSDP only had 663#'s of CC at delivery and all of that was on the rear axle. After some discussions and an inspection at Hendersons in OR. Newmar had Spartan replace the OEM 12,000# front axle with a 14,600# unit and upgraded wheels. I later changed to 9" Alcoa rims and 305/70 tires on the front. Another thing that came to light was that Newmar had downgraded the rear axle to 19,000#'s. While on the rack at Spartan they inspected the whole chassis and determined that nothing Newmar had done should have downgraded the rear axle capacity but they did find my hitch bolts were loose. This was at no cost to me other than the used Alcoa wheels and new tires. They even paid fuel from home and back BUT that was only due to WA state laws on warranty service.
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:15 PM   #10
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I don't have a Newmar, but I am a retired heavy truck engineer. Front Axle GAWR is a System, not just one component. Just putting in a heavier front axle without considering the rest of the front axle System is foolhardy. A heavy front axle will likely require larger front brakes, heavier wheels, larger tires, heavier duty shocks, heavier duty air springs, heavier duty suspension arms, heavier duty steering linkage, possibly a larger steering gear, possibly a larger air reservoir for the larger front brakes, maybe even a heavier front frame, etc. This information would have to come from the chassis manufacturer, Freightliner or Spartan, not Newmar. Is Newmar going to supply a new GVWR/GAWR vehicle certification label? I doubt the chassis manufacturer will.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wam16 View Post
HambonesBBQ,
I had the coach weighed at a CAT scales, full water, full fuel and Angel and I. Did not have all of the items in coach we normally travel with, but did have most, also with our son and one of his friends we would be overloaded on the front axle. No problem on drive or tag axles.

Allen
Sorry but I still don't get it. Based on the brochure for your coach with full fuel and water and extra tile I estimate about 7K of CCC. That is a lot of weight. Even if I am off by 2K that still leaves 5K of CCC. Can you provide the individual axle weights? I would guess that you have provided that documentation to Newmar so have it accessible. The reason I ask is that if the tag and rear are not loaded(adjusted)properly that can shift weight to the front axle. Could be a bag or other adjustment.

Or everything is correct and in spec at the rear axles and the FA is overloaded as you stated it is perhaps due to the floor plan (again, your initial premise).

Thanks
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadillLinc View Post
... Front Axle GAWR is a System, not just one component...
As this discussion has been going of for a long time now you may have missed the posts where a member was told by Freightliner that the axle was not the limiting factor, it was some of those other system components you mentioned. It is those, I believe, that Freightliner and Newmar are addressing. Newmar is doing nothing without input from Freightliner.

The last concern I can recall, without going back and reading the several hundred posts on the issue, was the need to have the front tires inflated to their max cold inflation pressure to match the additional capacity the other upgraded components will provide. The fender has to be redesigned (and I believe it may have been for the 2017s) to allow a bigger tire.
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:03 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by JMonroe View Post
As this discussion has been going of for a long time now you may have missed the posts ...
Good memory and synopsis.
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by HambonesBBQ View Post
Sorry but I still don't get it. Based on the brochure for your coach with full fuel and water and extra tile I estimate about 7K of CCC. That is a lot of weight. Even if I am off by 2K that still leaves 5K of CCC. Can you provide the individual axle weights? I would guess that you have provided that documentation to Newmar so have it accessible. The reason I ask is that if the tag and rear are not loaded(adjusted)properly that can shift weight to the front axle. Could be a bag or other adjustment.

Or everything is correct and in spec at the rear axles and the FA is overloaded as you stated it is perhaps due to the floor plan (again, your initial premise).

Thanks
CCC is a number that is about as reliable as MSRP. Works in theory but practical application is another issue.
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