Not a good Newmar story....

[Chow5656]

Originally Posted by azpete

hooking a 3/4 inch hose to the black water tank flush and having it overflow thru a 3 inch toilet valve opening does not produce a spray which would coat the walls. just doesnt happen. how do i know? ive had the same thing happen. only water, not a lot of sewage.
im not saying newmar shouldnt fix this coach, just saying it shouldnt have gone on for very long before getting it repaired.
there is a lack of acceptance of personal responsibility today. its always someone elses fault. if only they had put an alarm on it, it wouldnt have happened. yes alarms can be added, but how many, what do they shut off, and what do they cost? an additional 5 ot 6 thousand dollars worth of alarms and shutoffs? what happens when the alarm systems fails? and what does it cost to repair the alarms? i can go on, but it all comes down to the fact that you need to pay attention to what you are doing.
my dad used to say "common sense is a uncommon thing" i used to think that made no sense, but now as im older, it makes perfect sense.

AMEN!!!!!!! YOU said it ALL my friend!!!!

[calhyatt]

You just can't fix stupid..

[BFlinn181]

Originally Posted by jimkate

I admit that when I bought our coach (not new), that I was very naive.

I plugged into an electrical post at a campground and immediately blew some fuses. I was lucky that's all I blew. The campground owner asked me what brand of surge protector I was using. I said, I don't know what the manufacturer used on this model of coach. !!!!!!! Silly me! I learned that the manufacturer didn't bother installing any kind of surge protector on their coach mansion! It was up to me to become knowledgeable in electricity and figure out for myself what brand of surge protector to buy, and figure out how to install it for myself! I actually believed that the quality coach manufacturer had their system designed so that if you did the thing you knew how to do - plug the power cable into the receptacle, and the power was not right, the system would refuse to accept it. Silly me!

Then we parked in another campground. The campground owner asked me what we had installed for a water pressure regulator. I replied that I didn't know what the manufacturer used on this model of coach. He smiled kindly, and said that their water pressure was in excess of 100 psi, and if I didn't know what my coach had, he would sell me a pressure regulator for $10.00 and I should use it just to be safe. So, I did that. When I got home, I studied the water system on our coach and learned that there was no water pressure safety mechanism at all! So, now I had to become knowledgeable about plumbing!

Then we read about the handling issues that so many coach owners face. It wanders, it blows around on the road, it switches lanes on its own, it ducks, it dives, it porpoises. We learn that it is our responsibility to figure out what sway bars to buy, what brand of shocks to install, what suspension bushings to change, what stabilizer systems to install, so that we can change our coach from something that can't be driven down the road to something that can be driven at least somewhat acceptably.

So, I have learned that motor coach manufacturers spend absolutely no time or money to make sure that their motor coach can be driven by everybody that has a valid driver's license and is in fact a good driver. The coach has not been tested. It has not been driven on the road. The manufacturer does not know if it will be possible to drive it at all!

As innocent consumers, coming up to retirement, with dreams of spending our last years living and traveling in a beautiful motor coach, we spend our life's savings on our dream home. We expect that we'll be floating down the highway in amazing comfort, we've dreamed about it.

We learn that until we can figure out how to fix it, we can't drive it. The 'little woman' soon learns that their dream coach is impossible to handle on the road, so the 'man' steps up to the plate and takes over the driving responsibilities. We learn that until we can learn about electricity, we can't hook up to shore power supplies. We learn that until we learn about plumbing, we can't hook up to water supplies.

My take is this. After a lifetime of being a productive worker in my trade, I never intended that my retirement would mean that I would have to learn how to be a plumber, an electrician, and a vehicle/suspension expert. I believe that the motor coach manufacturers have to wake up and start to produce a motor coach that can be used by everyday people without any training other than how to properly drive a vehicle of this size.

Until that time, I will never consider buying a new motor coach. If I have to figure out the systems myself, and determine what I need to buy to make the coach drive down the road, I will wait until someone else has given up and put it up for sale, at a tremendous loss.

Finally, my last comment. My son and his family live in California in a 5th Wheel. During the night, while he and his family were asleep, a plumber that was hired by the RV park was working on the plumbing system in the RV park. The last thing he did before he left, without telling anybody, was to connect a water supply to the black tank on my son's 5th wheel.

Our son and his wife and their newborn daughter were awakened to the noise and the stench of sewage and water blowing all over their bathroom and bedroom. Before the night was over, they were all plastered in sewage and water, their RV was destroyed (as far as living in it). They eventually repaired the 5th wheel, and life continued.

My question is: how is it possible that the manufacturer would design their product so that if a water hose was connected to the black tank, that if it filled the black tank, there would be no protective mechanism in place to prevent it from blowing back into the bathroom and bedroom? Hmmm. Seems like a simple one way valve would be the answer.

If anything like this happened to any of our vehicles, be it Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Toyota, etc. etc. etc., it would be considered as an unacceptable manufacturer's defect, and it would be plastered all over the media. Just look at the attention given to the gas pedal sticking down on the Toyota vehicles a few years ago. If that was a motor coach, it would be the owner's responsibility to figure out the problem and either design a solution or pay someone to provide the solution.

Enough. I'm stepping down off the soapbox. Hope I haven't offended anyone.

This should be moved to a new thread, but it was brought up here so I'm addressing it here. Mods move it to a new thread if you'd like.

Jim, You haven't offended me, but I do question some of your rant. The parts I highlighted in red, I question. In modern RVs, fuses are only found in 12v systems, 120v uses circuit breakers. How did you plug into the pedestal and blow fuses? Most of us have a healthy cautious streak before hooking our valuable RVs to a new place. I turn off the CB at the pedestal before plugging in and test power (with my built in EMS) and use a pressure regulator with gauge at the water hydrant. I give the water a taste to be sure I want it in my tank.

How do you know the RV wasn't test driven on the road? The chassis certainly was and the finished RV was driven to the dealer. A 20,000 lb vehicle, 30-45 ft. long is going to drive differently than an automobile, common sense tells us we need different skills to handle such a beast. Don't believe the ad claims to the contrary, use common sense.

I've never met a plumber that went around indiscriminately hooking up water hoses to sewage in the night. How do you hook up a hose to a black tank? Perhaps using a flush out cap? or hooking a hose up to the rinse or flush fittings? Maybe if the flush valves were left open when disconnected to the hydrant and then the plumber connected the hose to the hydrant? Open flush valves could cause contamination of the water supply if a backflow valve failed or wasn't used.

The parts I highlighted in blue tells the real story. YOU DIDN'T KNOW. I grew up on the water and was amazed as people plunked down money and bought boats never having been on the water before. I saw people run there cruisers through seaweed, block the water intakes and overheat and ruin both engines. They would learn the hard way that a boat steers from the back, not the front like a car when then they took out the side of a neighboring yacht trying to leave the slip. I saw boats blow up when people didn't properly ground the fill hose at the fuel dock and static created a fire. This wasn't the manufacturer's problem, it was the 'new' boat owner who had money but not enough sense to take a proper safe boating course before going out on the water.

[Free Bear]

Sadly, to many people only know one thing when problems arise. IT WASN'T MY FAULT.

[Papa_Jim]

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

This should be moved to a new thread, but it was brought up here so I'm addressing it here.

I can see how an experienced RV owner can consider this as off topic. As I said, at that time, as a new RV owner, "I was naive", as I am sure many new RV owners are in some ways.

How did you plug into the pedestal and blow fuses?

Yes, you're right. The breakers blew.

Most of us have a healthy cautious streak before hooking our valuable RVs to a new place.

Absolutely! Agreed! As experienced RV owners, we know this! Again, in my naivety, I had assumed that the manufacturer had surge protection built into the system.

I've never met a plumber that went around indiscriminately hooking up water hoses to sewage in the night.

I never have either. Hard to believe that anybody that would do that could be called a 'professional'.

How do you hook up a hose to a black tank? Perhaps using a flush out cap? or hooking a hose up to the rinse or flush fittings?

Yes. Exactly. The hose was hooked up to the black tank rinse or flush fitting.

The parts I highlighted in blue tells the real story. YOU DIDN'T KNOW.

Yes! You're absolutely right! I didn't know! Just like this lady did not know that she could possibly find herself in this kind of situation.

If this continues to stray away from the original theme of the thread, I agree that it should be removed.

I do apologize for my ramble, and I am very sorry that it is considered to be a rant. That absolutely was not my intent. I guess my entire ramble was empathizing with the situation this poor lady finds herself in. Someone new to RV ownership, although not necessarily stupid or careless, can be naive. An experienced RV owner possibly would have found this leak before this kind of damage was caused. Possibly. Having said that, I do not believe that the leak was her fault. I also do not believe that she is to be blamed because she didn't notice it until it was too late.

[lass]

Originally Posted by jimkate

If this continues to stray away from the original theme of the thread, I agree that it should be removed.
she didn't notice it until it was too late.

Since I also purchased my Ventana from North Trail, I have been following this blog with interest and find that yes we have stayed from the original topic, so in order to refresh myself, I decided read the article again and picked up on the following quotes.

"the plumping hadn't been hooked up correctly and after what she assumed was a minor leak, North Trail told her the RV would dry out"

Well, it didn't dry out

"But on March 9, Wilson said water began to pour into the vehicle"

Problem got worse!

Now, from personal experience, I know that the most frustrating part of a situation is the lack of communication / no response, and this becomes an appearance that someone just doesn't care about my problem. Makes me mad. For the past 7 weeks, my unit have been in for minor warranty work and for the 1st. 4 weeks nothing was done and no communication. Yes I did get Newmar involved.

So can we leave it that Newmar may have been part of the delay while gaining legal advise but in the end, did the honorable thing in making the owner financially whole.

X2...I think that this thread should be closed!!!!!!!!!!

[DocJim]

X3 - close Thread

["007"]

This thread has run its course and has drifted at times.
Any one that has a problem post in new thread we can discuss and maybe help in solving a problem for you.
Thread closed.