Odd Bay Star electrical wiring

[joes2901]

On my 2012 Bay Star 2901 the Equalizer jack control pad has a warning light for ignition on and the manual states the jacks should not work with the ignition on. During my short pre-delivery inspection the person showing how the RV is supposed to work was confused because the jacks would not deploy when following Equalizer's instructions. I asked what would happen if the ignition was on and he started the vehicle and the jacks would extend and lift the RV. He mumbled something about others may have been messing with the RV and not fully retracted the jacks. I noticed all the lights were blinking on the control pad (Equalizer's manual said that is a fault condition) when it was turned on. I have never heard a sound from the controller even though the user guide said there is an alarm beeper.

Later back at the RV park I tried resetting the Null position 3 times by holding the buttons for 10, then 20, and then 30 seconds because there was no controller sound indicating the Null had been reset. That caused the warning lights to not all flash anymore, only lite up with a condition related to the light on the controller. However, all the jack indicator lights always blink together, even if only manually operating one jack at a time. The jacks will extend only if the ignition is on or engine running. The jacks will retract with the ignition off or on.

Looking under the hood I see 4 cables going to the positive post of 2 Interstate Group 24 batteries wired in parallel. The 750 CCA Ford Motorcraft battery has 3 positive cables connected to it. I think I discovered the chassis battery operates the steps and hydraulic pump for the Equalizer jacks. The coach batteries operates the slides, the lights and controller boards, etc. As long as I was pluged into 50 amp power during the first 2 weeks of ownership everything seemed to operate.

On the morning I was leaving the Jojoba Hills SKP park, I disconnected the 50 amp power and used the batteries to retract the 2 slides and retract the jacks. The RV started and I drove about 22 miles down the road to Temecula Valley RV for an estimate of the cost for a solar system, AGM batteries, and a powerful inverter/controller system. The boss at Temecula Valley RV asked me to extend the slides so they could check out the basement compartments for wireing and battery location possibilities. I unlocked the manual slide locks and to my shock the front slide would not move. I was asked to try the bedroom slide and it too would not move, there was not a sound of any effort by the motor to move. They called Newmar and the decision was to charge all the batteries over the weekend (48+ hours). I came back Monday morning and was told the slides were working now. I thought Oh NO, not an intermittent electrical problem already. I then complained about the noisy and vibrating forward AC/HP system that sounded and felt like a Huey helicoptor was on the roof, blistering film, etc that were Newmar warranty issues. The wait for the correct parts for the damaged motor and fan for the Dometic 15K AC/HP and repair would drag on for about 6 weeks.

With no wiring diagrams available, the speculation was that the little batteries cannot handle the slides or jack loads unless the engine is running or many hours of charging have been done before trying to move the slides again. I got the sick feeling that if I was boondocking and ran the furnace all night I probably would not be able to retract the jacks or slides in the morning. I was then convinced the new RV required some "Manly" AGM battery banks (4 Lifeline GPL-L16Ts for 800 AHs for the coach, and 2 Lifeline GPL-4CTs 220 AHs and 1095CCAs for the chassis).

Fast forward 6 weeks, with the Winegard slim HD sat. antenna moved from the center of the roof to the front, 3 Mitsubishi 255 Watt solar panels were on the roof and via 6 AWG wires were connected to an Outback FM60 charge controller with remote temp. senser which communicated through a Hub-4 to a Mate-3 remote controller, which should enable monitoring the solar system via my laptop. The 480 lbs. of coach AGM batteries were mounted above the Ford chassis frame rails in the pass through just forward of the fresh water tank. All the new electrical stuff is installed in the lower part of the same compartment. This also includes a Magnum MS2812 inverter/charger, BMK, AGS, ME-ARC50 remote controller. There are 4-0 (4 ought) cables among the batteries (series parallel wiring) and to the MS2812 and they also go 16' to the front of the RV where the pair of Interstate coach batteries had been. A Progressive surge suppressor and remote monitor was installed after the transfer switch so I can monitor both shore power and generator power. I supplied a Xantrex Link-10 battery monitor kit that was installed on the pair of AGM engine batteries. The BMK includes a shunt on the coach batteries. I stressed that I believed in doing it right the first time, no corner cutting to save a few dollars, and I believe in over engineering and will pay for it when I am the direct benificiary from it. Everything Newmar had connected to the coach batteries was connected to the terminal posts of the 4-0 cables routed to the front. I had all the chassis batteries' 2-0 wiring replaced with 4-0 cables and grounded to the chassis and engine. The grounding points that could be found were sanded clean and the 1/4 20 bolts replaced with 3/8 th bolts with star washers, etc. Everything that had been connected to the Ford Motorcraft battery was wired to the proper terminals on the 2 AGM chassis batteries. The batteries, electrical equipment, solar panels, and cabling total about 900 pounds. I went overboard in order to reduce future problems in coming years due to bad grounds and voltage drops.

The Outback, Magnum, and Progresive remote controllers were fitted into the system monitor compartment above the entry door. The Link-10 monitor is mounted in the dash.

The Solar system seems to stay in float mode most of the time with short periods in bulk and absorbsion. When I turned on the inverter and pre-heated the Convection Microwave to 400 degrees the Solar system began delivering 47 amps (around 4:30 PM and late afternoon light). However, the engine battery and sometimes the coach batteries show a voltage that is 0.15 to 0.20 Volts over the Outback charge controller's 13.4 Volt setting.

I am speculating that the small Newmar installed 5-10 Watt solar panel on the roof above the driver is the culprit. Looking through the plexiglass cover at the BIRD and relays I cannot see anything that may be regulating the voltage from that solar panel. I took the cover off and discovered 2 blue wires, (perhaps 12 gage stranded) joined together via a 7.5 Amp fuse. I pulled the fuse and a DVOM showed 20.5+ Volts. I thought that perhaps 2 diodes (approx. 0.077 voltage drop each) would bring down the voltage as it exited the BIRD box on its way to the engine batteries. Alas, I could not find that wire. Newmar's customer service rep. could only guess about what color and wire that would be. So, the dual diode thing was inserted into the line on the far right copper bar from the solinoid which only dropped the voltage to about 19 Volts.

I am concerned the higher voltage from Newmar's little solar panel could ruin the several thousand dollars worth of AGM batteries that do not want voltages above 14.4 in bulk/absorb and 13.4 in float modes.

Does anyone have knowledge or experience with the Bay Stars' electrical systems that could help find a solution to the high voltage. With the fuse disconnected from the 2 blue wires in the BIRD box the high surface charge dropped from 13.6 Volts to about 13.45 volts in 20 minutes. But is leaving the wires disconnected from the fuse causing the BIRD to not work as it is supposed to? I like the idea of the engine's alternator, solar panel system, or inverter's charger keeping the engine and coach batteries fully charged.

Thank You for reading this, it is long because I wanted to provide enough information for knowledgable answers. I hope it also shows that the work done does not conflict or alter Newmar's systems, it only substitutes more battery power, a Magnum inverter with 125 Amp charger in place of the 55 Amp changer, and added solar power to keep the batteries charged, and added shunts to monitor the battery banks and surge supressor to monitor shore and generator power. The electrical system is still a dual pole 50 Amp system with the lights and recepticles moved to a dual pole 30 Amp Inverter distribution system that passes through shore and generator power.

Joe in hi-and-distressed mode which is inhibiting letting the good times roll into the boondocking world.

[Luv2go]

Joe, is sounds like you have a nice setup

The so-called solar panel regulator Newmar provides is, at least on my coach, the little round thing with the Red LED on the dash. You should be able to remove the wires going to it and disable their panel.

My system is sort of similar to yours, not done quite so well. It has three 195W panels on the roof with two 120W portable panels connected to two Blue Sky charge controllers, I can get 50A out of it during peak sun. My inverter is an oldie but goodie Trace SW2512 and my coach batteries are 400AH total of Thundersky lithium iron phosphate batteries. The chassis battery is the original Motorcraft Lead Acid.

I used to have 1000AH of cheap AGM lead acid batteries as coach batteries, but their capacity was badly degraded after only a few seasons, so I replaced them last spring. I suspect I killed them by letting them get sulphated (still have them, are desulphating them and will be using them in a solar energy system in our house).

The nice thing about the Thundersky batteries is that they weigh about 180lb instead of 1000lb so the coach is now underweight again. I get more usable energy out of them as the old lead acid as they can be 80% discharged 3000 times before you lose significant capacity. I would only discharge my old batteries about 30% before recharging them and they still only lasted 3 years! They also have a great charging profile, taking max amps until almost 100% charged and do not require an absorption stage.

The bad thing is they cost over $2k (for 400AH at 12V) and they are only available from small EV (Electric Vehicle) suppliers, the one I used with was hard to deal with and would not recommend. Also they like to float at 14V, which should be a little high for the lead acid chassis battery when the BIRD connects them together. So far I've not had to water the chassis battery so maybe it's not.

It's interesting that you found that disconnecting the Newmar panel reduced the voltage. When my system is in float the BIRD is always closed so the chassis and coach batteries are always connected together, there's always about a 0.9A load on the coach batteries due to CO2 detector, antenna amp, etc. The 5W panel puts out 0.4A at best so the real charge controllers are still having to supply power and are able to regulate the voltage properly.

["007"]

Joe, the Bird System in normal conditions will charge the house batteries and than charge the chassis battery when they reach full charge while plugged into shore power or Gen from your converter.
While on the road the alternator will charge batteries in reverse chassis battery than house batteries.
If these conditions are not functioning than BIRD is not in the picture.
The small solar panel intent is to keep the chassis battery charged and compensate for parasitic drains from radio memory, LP detector, step operation,ECM,TCM that feed off chassis battery.
AGM's added to Bird System