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Old 12-05-2022, 09:49 AM   #1
Rd1
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Omni Scope Silverleaf

Anyone familiar or has used the Silver leaf OmniScop?

Looks like I need to use it in order to correct some settings on a TM module which got corrupted due to some power issue.

Anyone who is familiar or has purchased this tool can share info?
are there other srources to purchase this besides SL?

thank you.
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Old 12-05-2022, 11:37 AM   #2
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I have one and have used it quite a bit.

Not very intuitive. SL is the only source I know of.

You traveling near dfw anytime soon?
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Old 12-05-2022, 04:13 PM   #3
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Thank you for the offer, it'll be a while before I head south..

Do I miss Art!!!

I am getting conflicting stories from SL. This morning talking to Mark,I got the impression that omniscope can reload the original settings for the tm250 mem chip . I was about to order one. However, now talking to Gary, I get the impession that omniscope can't do that!!

tm250 has the 2 temp sensors for outside and the bath. They are both reading way out of order. outside temp reading is 152 when it is 48. though it does change accordingly as temps drop.

The bath reads 990 and it does change some as well. So it does look like the temps are read, they are just way out of range.

When you use omniscope does it give the option to review the tm250 settings? can you reload the firmware or other settings to the tm250?

thank you.
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Old 12-05-2022, 05:12 PM   #4
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Omni Scope Silverleaf

I would first measure the resistance on each themistor thatís plugged into the TM250. They are 10K ohm thermistors (which is the reading at 77 degrees F). This way you can isolate the problem between the thermistor and the TM250.

My bathroom temperature was reading wrong and Art helped me with adding a resistor inline to drop the temperature to the correct value.

Here is a chart which shows the resistance at various temperatures.

http://pts.myrheem.com/docstore/webd...ance-Chart.pdf

Click image for larger version

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Old 12-05-2022, 07:27 PM   #5
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will check the resistance in the AM. that compartment is full.. was able to disconnect the temp plug and it does change it to -459f.

another issue is the load status. I have 2 entries one on ea leg that are forced?one is the A/C compressor #1 and the other is a General Purpose#2.

this seems to be suspect. is the Dual Phase Capacity under Load Setting supposed to be 49A?
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Old 12-05-2022, 08:55 PM   #6
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My dual phase capacity is set to 51A. I donít have 49A as an option. The next lower setting is 46A.

Iíve never seen a shed setting of ďForcedĒ. I just checked mine and I have Forced for AC Fan #4 (bedroom). Surprise, surprise. I lowered the temperature for that zone and the system turned on as expected.

Iíve been having an issue with that zone, whereas if I disconnect/reconnect shore power, that zone goes into a shed mode and the unit will not turn in. Iíve found that if I cycle 12V power at the salesman switch, the problem clears. Not sure why. Neither the TM102 or TM205 should loose power when the 12V disconnect switch is activated, although 12V to the HVAC units does get cycled. I plan on reproducing the issue and then pull individual fuses to see what corrects the issue.
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Old 12-05-2022, 09:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
My dual phase capacity is set to 51A. I donít have 49A as an option. The next lower setting is 46A.

Iíve never seen a shed setting of ďForcedĒ. I just checked mine and I have Forced for AC Fan #4 (bedroom). Surprise, surprise. I lowered the temperature for that zone and the system turned on as expected.

Iíve been having an issue with that zone, whereas if I disconnect/reconnect shore power, that zone goes into a shed mode and the unit will not turn in. Iíve found that if I cycle 12V power at the salesman switch, the problem clears. Not sure why. Neither the TM102 or TM205 should loose power when the 12V disconnect switch is activated, although 12V to the HVAC units does get cycled. I plan on reproducing the issue and then pull individual fuses to see what corrects the issue.
Your dual phase setting of 51A is an issue. Same problem I was having this past summer. Had to purchase a new module from SL to correct. On its own the reading is not a problem other than it was never programed that way. I was unsure what else might have been wrong and that was why I changed out the module. At the time SL was not able to rebuild the modules for lack of chips or maybe a lack of Art.
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Old 12-05-2022, 10:01 PM   #8
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When I discussed the Bedroom HVAC shedding issue with Art about a year ago, he indicated that my device(s) may be "walking wounded" due to the problem with lack of a flyback diode on the charge bridge. I now have the diode installed, buy any "damage" may have already been done. After talking with Art, the problem went away so I never went to far down the path of resolving the issue.



Not sure if the "damage" would be limited to the TM102 or other modules too. I would think that reloading the firmware (or the settings) would suffice, but not sure if a firmware reload is a possibility.


I assume the module you had replaced was the TM102? What did they charge for a new module? Obviously it would be easier to purchase a new one and do a quick swap.
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Old 12-06-2022, 07:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
When I discussed the Bedroom HVAC shedding issue with Art about a year ago, he indicated that my device(s) may be "walking wounded" due to the problem with lack of a flyback diode on the charge bridge. I now have the diode installed, buy any "damage" may have already been done. After talking with Art, the problem went away so I never went to far down the path of resolving the issue.



Not sure if the "damage" would be limited to the TM102 or other modules too. I would think that reloading the firmware (or the settings) would suffice, but not sure if a firmware reload is a possibility.


I assume the module you had replaced was the TM102? What did they charge for a new module? Obviously it would be easier to purchase a new one and do a quick swap.
Actually it was the TM-250 module. I believe it was $325 for a new one as they did not have any rebuilds and those are the same words that Art used the last time I talked to him. Prior to that I had previously replaced the TM-102 module.
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Old 12-06-2022, 10:30 AM   #10
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This is a helpful discussion,, thanks.

I tried flyboy's recommendation and the temp1(outside temp sensor) reads about 29k *Ω* which is about 36F and temp2 (bathroom) reads about 12k*Ω* which is about 69F. Both are correct. These numbers change as temps change. This seems to suggest they are functioning as designed. Just the original config file on the circuit board may be corrupted.

I found the attached Silverleaf tech ref. Not sure if I got that from Art or perhaps from someone else here on the forum. Hope fully helps others. The description on OmniScope (pg 24) suggests the default scripts can be reloaded using this tool.

After further discussions with SL, I understand they are not on the hardware design team, so they do not know if the processor (on tm250, others) contains only the program instructions and / or the memory for the default configurations. If the processor has both and is damaged, then presumably it can not be reloaded. And the processor must be replaced, which they can no longer do. You can send them the tm250 for a $60 diagnostic, if they can't fix it, you need to have it replaced. Tm250 is now ~$370. Omni ~$440.

The load status screen indicating 'Forced' load setting suggests there is damage to the original setting on the tm250 as well. However, they seem to function as well. This 'seems' to suggest a corrupted setting due to surcharge.

I can only presume these are just the result of a corrupted eproms and should recover with a reload. Proof will be in the pudding. Should have the omni by next week. It has been a few decades since I've looked at things at the harware level. Hope I can dust up the ol' brain.

As for the 'Dual Phase Capacity', the setting 'appears' to be variable. I've tried different numbers and it does not seem to make any difference.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Silverleaf-Technical-Reference.pdf (1.54 MB, 9 views)
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Old 12-06-2022, 05:18 PM   #11
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After further discussions with SL, I understand they are not on the hardware design team, so they do not know if the processor (on tm250, others) contains only the program instructions and / or the memory for the default configurations.
Well that's a surprise. They aren't on the HW design team for their own products? Any idea who designed and built the HW?

Quote:
If the processor has both and is damaged, then presumably it can not be reloaded. And the processor must be replaced, which they can no longer do.
I would expect the processor to be an ATMEGA chip or similar. Its relatively easy to reload firmware onto these chips, if you have the firmware to load. If anyone has an old device that they aren't using anymore (ie. a new one was purchased), I'd love to see pictures of the board in the unit.

Quote:
The load status screen indicating 'Forced' load setting suggests there is damage to the original setting on the tm250 as well. However, they seem to function as well. This 'seems' to suggest a corrupted setting due to surcharge.
I've looked though all of my Silverleaf/RV-C documentation and cannot find anything about a "Forced" status. I'm still not sure what it means.

Quote:
I can only presume these are just the result of a corrupted eproms and should recover with a reload. Proof will be in the pudding. Should have the omni by next week. It has been a few decades since I've looked at things at the harware level. Hope I can dust up the ol' brain.
I believe I have a copy of the OmniScope software but it requires a license key that comes with the USB/RV-C connection cable. I have an RV-C cable that I built and can access the RV-C bus via a linux computer, so I can monitor what's going on, and even change some of the configuration items using the RV-C spec as a guide, but cannot run the OmniScope software. I'd be interested in your results.

Quote:
As for the 'Dual Phase Capacity', the setting 'appears' to be variable. I've tried different numbers and it does not seem to make any difference.
I'm not sure where the list of amp capacity choices comes from? I'm now thinking that the list is in the HMS (Silverleaf display) and not something that's broadcast on the RV-C network as possible options. Does that mean the HMS module is bad too? Also of note, both Silverleaf screens (HMS) have the 51A option and not 50A.
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Old 12-06-2022, 09:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
Well that's a surprise. They aren't on the HW design team for their own products? Any idea who designed and built the HW?


I would expect the processor to be an ATMEGA chip or similar. Its relatively easy to reload firmware onto these chips, if you have the firmware to load. If anyone has an old device that they aren't using anymore (ie. a new one was purchased), I'd love to see pictures of the board in the unit.

I've looked though all of my Silverleaf/RV-C documentation and cannot find anything about a "Forced" status. I'm still not sure what it means.

I believe I have a copy of the OmniScope software but it requires a license key that comes with the USB/RV-C connection cable. I have an RV-C cable that I built and can access the RV-C bus via a linux computer, so I can monitor what's going on, and even change some of the configuration items using the RV-C spec as a guide, but cannot run the OmniScope software. I'd be interested in your results.

I'm not sure where the list of amp capacity choices comes from? I'm now thinking that the list is in the HMS (Silverleaf display) and not something that's broadcast on the RV-C network as possible options. Does that mean the HMS module is bad too? Also of note, both Silverleaf screens (HMS) have the 51A option and not 50A.
My 51 amp choice changed to the normal 50 amp choice with the installation of a new TM-250 module
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Old 12-07-2022, 03:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Well that's a surprise. They aren't on the HW design team for their own products? Any idea who designed and built the HW?
I am afraid I do not know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
I would expect the processor to be an ATMEGA chip or similar. Its relatively easy to reload firmware onto these chips, if you have the firmware to load. If anyone has an old device that they aren't using anymore (ie. a new one was purchased), I'd love to see pictures of the board in the unit.

I've looked though all of my Silverleaf/RV-C documentation and cannot find anything about a "Forced" status. I'm still not sure what it means.
Forced seems to suggest the program does not know what to do with the specific item, so it is forced OFF. I do know mine used to be set at 50a. Raising the number has no influence, however, lowering it causes various items listed in the load status to start shedding off. So the program functions as it should. My guess, just the mem part for the config is corrupted due to power surge/etc.. so hopefully should be able to recover. Suspect, yours may have been damaged likewise. The bath/outside temp readings on mine work just fine, if I subtract a set number from ea, I can get to the correct temp for every reading. I suspect the diode you have added is accomplishing the same task as the original config setup does in the tmp250 mem. Just reads the Ω and corrects it based on the specific config settings in the mem for ea temp(?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
I believe I have a copy of the OmniScope software but it requires a license key that comes with the USB/RV-C connection cable. I have an RV-C cable that I built and can access the RV-C bus via a linux computer, so I can monitor what's going on, and even change some of the configuration items using the RV-C spec as a guide, but cannot run the OmniScope software. I'd be interested in your results.
there is a key for the use of the software on a given computer. Should have it by mid next week, Will keep you posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
I'm not sure where the list of amp capacity choices comes from? I'm now thinking that the list is in the HMS (Silverleaf display) and not something that's broadcast on the RV-C network as possible options. Does that mean the HMS module is bad too? Also of note, both Silverleaf screens (HMS) have the 51A option and not 50A.
As Wayne suggest, it is related to the tm250 problems.
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Old 12-14-2022, 12:56 PM   #14
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Just a quick update. got the Omniscope. First try wasn't able to connect. It was just a missing usb driver on my laptop. quick/easy fix.

After connect all was good, except the display on the main page, the status of all the RV-network nodes, is difficult to read. All the lines are displayed on tope of one another. It seems a display driver issue. Looks like they figured there is a problem and SL is working on it.

In the mean time, I was able to get around abit. I can view all the thermostat setting and the actual readings of the temp sensors. I was easily able to modify the temp reading for the bathroom (992f) and change it to 67f which my own thermometer was displaying. The bath temp now displays correctly. The oasis heat kicks in when called for and stops when the desired temp is reached. The oasis heat didnot work at all when the bath temp was showing 992f. for obvious reasons!

Also was able to view the outside temp setting for 140F and just re-typed the correct outtside temp of 32f and it seems good for now,

However, after talking to SL about the display and telling them how I made changes, they are a bit perpelexed. I did not reload any scripts as was described previously!!

Once they get the display working right, will dig in more. In the mean time all is working fine.
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