Opine with me: replacing a dead Penguin II

[TheGingerGuy]

On our last 40 day trip out to the Grand Canyon and points between, the AC/HP unit above the bedroom finally stopped blowing cold/hot. Used the google-fu to search IRV2, found the relevant posts, and have determined it's just another of the usual Dometic QC issues where there isn't enough charge for the unit to properly operate. Yay, replacement time.

I'll be DIY'ing the install; I have access to equipment to simplify getting the unit(s) on and off the roof safely and easily. I'm considering all the options and would appreciate anyone's opinions on the matter!

• Replace the unit. Buy another 651815C (13,500 BTU black AC + HP CCC2) unit, buy a new gasket, remove and replace and be done with it.
  
• Upgrade the unit. Buy the larger 651816C (15,000 BTU black AC + HP CCC2) unit, buy a new gasket, remove and replace as above.
  
• Swap cabin unit to bedroom, upgrade cabin unit. Uninstall the factory cabin AC/HP and move it over to the bedroom, drop it in with a new gasket. Then buy the larger 651816C mentioned above, with a new gasket again, and install the big boy above the cabin.
  
• Replace bedroom, upgrade cabin. This is the part where I assume the cabin one is destined for death anyway, so I replace the bedroom with a factory sized unit, and then pre-emptively replace the cabin with the larger unit. Gaskets too, of course.
• Go big because you're not going home. Buy a pair of the upgraded units, a pair of gaskets, and go ape.

Question to the group: the white Penguin II units seem WAY easier to find versus the black ones. Can I swap the factory black clamshell onto a white unit? Does anyone know for sure?

I've also found the price difference between the 13,500 BTU and "high cap" 15,000 BTU units are basically a hundred bucks or so, obviously depending on source supplier. The overall half-amp power draw uptick on the bigger units also seems like a non-issue to me.

I'm leaning towards bullet three where I move the old cabin unit to the bedroom and upgrade to the larger unit for the cabin. But then I wonder if it's really even worth moving a unit that might die in a year or less, and do I just bite the bullet and go #4 and replace 'em both?

What say you, IRV2?

[rvbiker45]

I have replaced units 4 times in the last 5-6 years. We replaced the units with the 15,000 btu version. The last replacement, the front, we installed just an a/c unit. The problem that we had been having was with the reversing valve failing. My theory is that without the reversing valve, most of the potential failures would be eliminated. So far, so good.

If replacing one unit, it is possible that when the other unit gives it up, perhaps the newer unit will have better QC than the current units. Maybe not.

Using the heat pump in the rear unit does just fine to keep the MH comfortable. It also keeps the noise in the bedroom area while we are in the living area. The furnace takes care of the majority of the heating requirements at lower outside temps.

[Dutch Star Don]

Personally, I would upgrade and swap out units. Yes, Dometic has had issues with their poor QC, but that doesn't mean the other one will die. It could last 10 years.

Again, personal opinion, but I would go with the white shroud and change the rear one to white or have it painted. I think you loose some cooling with the black units. Have you ever put your hand on one of the black ones during the summer? I swapped both of my A/C covers for white within months of purchase.

[TheGingerGuy]

Thanks for the replies gents.

Biker: interesting. I did try tapping the valve to see if it would let go, also made sure to try to run the AC for a while versus the HP just to see if it would "unstick." We were very much in the middle of the desert going back and forth between AC in the day and HP at night. Could of course be coincidence of too. Either way, it's dead.

Don, I actually haven't owned the RV long enough to get a good sense of summer temperatures up there. Your statement makes sense on the face of it re: black cover solar gain potentially interfering with AC operation. Did you able just swap on the new clamshells? Or did you paint yours? Or did you color swap as part of replacing your units?

[YC1]

If you install the 13.5 unit in the bedroom keep the white shroud. The old shrouds become brittle over the years and crack easily.

We replaced a 15K unit with a 13.5 unit in the living area a few months back. Could not get a 15K unit. The new unit outperforms the 15K by a good margin.

I would not move the front one to the back. It always seems moving things like this cause more problems.

You will need to change the control board in the new unit to work with the old 5 button thermostat.

It is nearly impossible to notice there are two different AC's shrouds in play on our roof.

[arcaguy]

I choose door, errr bullet number 5. Can you really have too much air conditioning? Me thinks that while you have everything you need out and are up on the roof anyway I would at least get 2 new units up there. Good luck.

[ASU777]

If the still functional but older unit is original (~2007) and/or a CCC control board unit (5 button thermostat), I would replace both AC units with 15K BTU heat pumps and buy a new thermostat.

I replaced one HP recently and converted a slightly older but modern heat pump back to CCC2 from CCC because I didn't want to deal with the "conversion" going forward.

Micro-Air has a bluetooth/wifi enabled thermostat with versions that are CCC or CCC2 compatible. That should negate the possibility of Dometic not selling the CCC version in the future but it's 2.5X the price.

https://www.microair.net/products/ea...32199143555156

I think the shroud swap might be tough particularly swapping the bottom piece. My brand new and 5 year old Penguin II units do not look 100% the same internally. It's very slight and possibly a non-issue. However, I think the effort outweighs the gain here.

Beyond that, I would go with white for the reasons Don mentioned. I would want every advantage for the cooling process.

[TheGingerGuy]

Just to clarify: my rig is a 2017 and already has the CCC2 thermostat in it. Did I somehow mis-type 2007 somewhere? I do not have the 5-button thermostat anywhere in the rig.

Looks like the votes are for either #4 or #5, with a strong preference for going with all white shrowds.

[ASU777]

Originally Posted by TheGingerGuy

Just to clarify: my rig is a 2017 and already has the CCC2 thermostat in it. Did I somehow mis-type 2007 somewhere? I do not have the 5-button thermostat anywhere in the rig.

Looks like the votes are for either #4 or #5, with a strong preference for going with all white shrowds.

I think I (mis-)read someone else's bio that had a 2008 model year coach listed and saw a message about changing the control board for the thermostat so that confirmed my mistake.

Much more difficult decision. I can't tell if you have two 13.5K BTU units or if the surviving one is already 15K BTU. Since this is a Newmar and they all share the same ducting, going 2x 15K BTU would make sense (to me) if you are not satisfied with your current overall cooling capacity. It's really a question of how well things were working before the recent AC failure.

I would not move/swap any unit. It would be advisable to buy a new Newmar gasket for $100+ because the old one is compressed to the contour of the other roof position. I agree with the other member here that it's not worth the time/effort vs. risk to move units around particularly in a fully ducted coach.

[TheGingerGuy]

Both my units are the 13.5k BTU parts. Because we purchased the coach in October, we really have no specific comfort (or, discomfort? heh) with the existing AC capacity. For the heatpump action, the singular cabin unit performed admirably in keeping the coach toasty warm even with temps outside getting into the low 30's.

BTW, I hate the CCC2 doesn't turn on the furnace until the outside temp is 30*F. Who had that bright idea? And why isn't it configurable? Ugh.

Given the price difference between the two sizes and the strong recommendation to go to white clamshells for the upcoming summer, I'm now leaning pretty hard on going Full Send on bullet #5.

Oh, and the genuine Newmar AC gaskets are a whopping $7.88

[ASU777]

Originally Posted by TheGingerGuy

Oh, and the genuine Newmar AC gaskets are a whopping $7.88

I think the cross over piece is $7.88.

I believe you need the full gasket kit that includes the rectangular piece and 4 small pieces for the bolts. The gasket on the new AC I bought last year was not the same size as the Newmar gasket. It is over $100.

Part# 017841 per the Newmar doc from Newgle.

This article is from an IRV2.com member who wrote about it:

https://rvseniormoments.com/2018/07/...-install-fail/

[TheGingerGuy]

Ah, I misunderstood that entirely.

On an already $2500 tab for the parts and shipping, another $200 isn't gonna matter. Thank you for the clarification!

[ASU777]

Originally Posted by TheGingerGuy

Ah, I misunderstood that entirely.

On an already $2500 tab for the parts and shipping, another $200 isn't gonna matter. Thank you for the clarification!

Since your coach is much newer than mine, I would clarify with Newmar in case something has changed.

Edit: Reading through that Newmar PDF again, it does look like there are a few different plenum configurations with different shapes for the gasket that separates the return air.

[lass]

If you haven’t removed the A/C unit yet, here’s the bottom view of the Penguin II unit. The square gasket comes with the unit but you will have to buy the Newmar specific “L” shaped gasket directly from Newmar.

The plenum change will be required only if you elect to buy the Brisk Air version.