Possible Suspension Upgrades

[twinboat]

I had Sumos in the front of my E450 Axis.

Took them out and got a little bit more suspension movement, instead of a belly shaking rebound.

[rrtribble]

Do it if you want but you'll be wasting a lot of money! I'm now in a DP but drove gassers with Ford and GMC chassis. Spent several thousand trying to correct sway and loose steering to no avail UNTIL I did the CHF. I never added beefed up sway bars, just adjusted the stock ones and the difference was instantaneous. Last gasser traveled the lower 48, mountains an all and never had one problem. With the sway corrected my loosy-goosy front end improved but the problem there was Fords design.

Back in the day we didn't have iRV2 and the resources we have today or I would have saved a lot of money and heartache.

Oh, I took the CHF instructions from iRV2 to my Ford dealer on the last Ford gasser I bought and they did the work for me. For the Tiffin I took it to an independent mech with the instructions.

Best wishes in your decision. Let us know how it turns out for you. We all like to learn.

Be safe - Richard

[Earl II]

To those that have done the CHF, I am one that has not done it on the advice of my service center which I highly respect (Redlands Truck and RV) due to their history of fixing broken links when people do the CHF. I have done EVERYTHING to our F-53 22k chassis and it now drives great. If I were to do it over again, I would probably consider not doing what I have done and spending another $5000 or so and installing Liquidsprings. Now, with what I have spent, that is in another life.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by Earl II

To those that have done the CHF, I am one that has not done it on the advice of my service center which I highly respect (Redlands Truck and RV) due to their history of fixing broken links when people do the CHF. I have done EVERYTHING to our F-53 22k chassis and it now drives great. If I were to do it over again, I would probably consider not doing what I have done and spending another $5000 or so and installing Liquidsprings. Now, with what I have spent, that is in another life.

Liquid springs doesn't address sway control, your still going to need something to control that.

[markgrey]

Hi Guys.

New poster here, but I wanted to throw in my support of Liquid Springs. I have a CanyonStar 3953 with the Liquid Springs rear upgrade. In my journey to buying a coach I was torn between the ride deficiencies of gas chassis over diesel vs cost. The stock Canyonstar handles like the Queen Mary in a typhoon. Sway is awful on a fully loaded f53 at 26000lbs. In the end I decided to give the chassis a shot, and make all the improvements mentioned here. Sumo Springs, upgraded sway, track, safety-plus - etc. Know I was in for 5K plus of upgrades to make this tolerable on a longer trip. - But during my search for a Canyonstar on the used market, I stumbled across one with the Liquid Springs installed. What a difference. I admit my experience is not as deep as may of those on this forum, but this is as close to a diesel as you can get in a f53 chassis. It is amazing. 12k-15k is a big bite, but the investment in all the individual upgrades necessary to make this rig tolerable will get you in this range anyway.

Liquid Springs is this year offering a four corners package and I am seriously considering the upgrade. They estimate the upgrade at 50% of the cost of the rear alone if this is already installed in your coach.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks

[Indy Glenn]

Originally Posted by davidceder

So I have had my rig for about 15 months now and have put on about 8K. The only thing I sort of did to the suspension was the Safe-T-Plus (not really much help for the ride). I know about the Cheap Handling Fix and have decided I do not want to do that. I have read enough pluses and minus’e about the fix to just leave things alone. I know some will disagree. So I think it is time for some suspension upgrades. My main concern is the excessive roll/lean/back and forth from side to side movement whenever I make a sweeping turn, pull onto or off of a steep curb or just getting unto some uneven surface. The DW hates it, especially when she is driving.I am thinking about adding Sumo Springs and Koni Shocks. Don’t feel much movement in the rear so for now will not replace the rear stabilizer bar. I would just do the springs but I live 90 miles from the nearest service center that can do this and it is a drive with 10,000 feet of verticle gain so I just prefer to make the trip one time and get both springs and shocks done. (I guess I could be talked into getting one done at a time over a few of months if that made real sense.

So am I going down the correct track here? Is there something I need to know, maybe a better solution, Bilstein shocks maybe? I know you all are not shy, so let me have it.

Thanks in advance.

david.....Full disclosure - I only skimmed the whole thread.

Lots of advice here and like everything - is subjective to the individual and for you to determine how much it helps.

We bought a 2017 Canyon Star 3953 new....

I am no mechanic. We had a roll problem. I knew I had to do something when entering a state park with a rather "squiggly" entrance road and saw my wife taking 45° leans when I went around some turns at 20mph or so. The lean was awful.

I went with Sumo Springs Maxims. Fixed the problem for the most part. I still had to slow a tad on some Interstate exits but they made for a much better ride.

I don't believe changing the shocks will help the problem and Sumos do not smooth out the road.

I did the Sumos all around - maybe start with the front and add the backs if required.

To continue - after a couple of years of ownership - we decided we were going to keep this motor home, we like it, works for us. So we upgraded the back end with Liquid Springs. this upgrade made a huge difference - it actually smoothed the ride and further stabilized the motor home. Unfortunately the front end still takes a lot of the brunt of poor roads but a lot of the rattling & noise within the motor home has stopped. The wife has been in the back while in motion and said it is so quiet......We are looking forward to Liquid Springs developing a front end system, which per LS is in the works. But - they are ridiculously expensive and if you will be selling your motor home within a few years - to me - probably not worth the investment.....

Hope this helps a little....good luck.

g

Good luck.....

[fcbbob15]

OK got to throw my 2 cents worth and personal experience in here. I have a 22k F53 chassis and had all the usual sway and wandering issues as others have said. I had alignment and and four wheel weigh and set tire pressures. My first mod was CHF on front and rear with some improvement but wanted more. Then a safety plus was installed but I never really got it centered. Next was Sumo springs front and rear, didn't really notice any change in sway. Next was Super Steer track bar, nice improvement when trucks passed. Then Hellweg front and rear sway bars, big improvement. The only issue I had then was going around curves it needed constant correction. I felt I was fighting the Safety Steer. Took off the Safety Steer and it's great now. Now more white knuckles and death grip on the wheel. Next step is to have the Safety Plus installed by a shop that can get it centered correctly. Doing over again I would not install the Sumo Springs. Everyone is different but this combo worked for me and my rig.

[Bentgypsy]

Originally Posted by PetesMH

After owning 3 F53 chassis coaches I’ve reached a few conclusions. One is that these vehicles are not as bad as many new owners make them out to be. On my first one I spent a lot of money and felt like it was well spent. On my second I only did the steering stabilizer and the front and rear CHF using longer links in the front. I was just as happy with a lot less money. Decided to try front Sumos for some reason and I did not find any benefit. On my current Bay Star Sport I did the same CHF and used my previous Roadmaster steering stabilizer. That’s all I’m going to do as I’m very happy with how it handles. Well, I did do an alignment (it was fine from the factory). I think most folks just get used to the way they handle and are fine.

Since you own a Baystar sport (mine’s a 2018, 2812 A little shorter than yours, probably same chassis weight); would you tell me what CHF’s you did? So far, I am thinking about starting with the rear Altra-Trac Bar and Koni shocks.

[PetesMH]

Originally Posted by Bentgypsy

Since you own a Baystar sport (mine’s a 2018, 2812 A little shorter than yours, probably same chassis weight); would you tell me what CHF’s you did? So far, I am thinking about starting with the rear Altra-Trac Bar and Koni shocks.

Well, the CHF is a specific adjustment to the factory sway bars. Both the front and rear bars come from Ford set in the softer position and it’s relatively easy to reset them to the factory provided stiffer position. When I have done it I extended the front links to preserve the factory geometry but most people just reposition the existing links. The rear bar does not need longer links. So I did this simple adjustment both front and rear on my Bay Star Sport, I checked the alignment and I installed a Roadmaster steering stabilizer. That’s all I’ve done and I’m entirely satisfied with the handling. I spent $125 checking the alignment and $60 extending the front roll bar links. That’s all I plan to do I had the Roadmaster from my previous coach so I didn’t need to spend money on that. I could wish the ride was softer but it’s a heavily loaded truck chassis and it is what it is. I enjoy driving it every single time!

[Bentgypsy]

Since I’m planning to meet my sister Traveling with her RV from the east, i’d like to reduce the rocking back and forth as well as improve the steering on my 2018 Baystar sport 2812. Even though I am full-time, I usually don’t do long distance driving from New Mexico, spending the summers in Colorado and the winters in southern Arizona.

Since TransWest outside of Denver is also a Newmar dealer and I need a few minor coach repairs, I have received quotes from them on various suspension jobs.
They seem to think that track bars are the same thing as sway (or anti-sway) bars. But that’s not the impression I get from the above posts. Also their costs seem to be high even for the Denver area. However, summertime is prime RV time in Colorado.
For the Safe-T Plus Red steering stabilizer (my Baystar sometimes feels like it’s floating) they’re charging me $746 plus $510 for labor ($170/hr. For labor).
Trac Bar is $685 plus $340 labor ( not sure it will make much of a difference, since my Baystar is not quite 29 feet there isn’t a lot of overhang beyond the rear axle).
Front Sumo Springs Is $758 plus $510 for labor ( seems to be mixed opinions as to how much The springs help with the swing back-and-forth)
FYI: Newmar had Ford add a heavy duty sway bar on the front Or at least they charged Newmar for it Siri

Then add 5% for shop supplies to those costs!

Though I could save significant dollars by doing at least some of it myself, I’m not handy and I’m in my late 70s.
I don’t mind spending some $1000’s if it’s going to make it more enjoyable to drive. right now, I hate driving it!

[Harry Joe]

I have a 31’ BSS with about the same overhang/coach length ratio as you.
You don’t mention CHF. Have you not done it? It makes a difference in sway. BTW, anti-sway bars and ‘track bars’ are not the same but TBs do contribute to roll stiffness.
That price for SafeTPlus seems really steep. My total cost w/installation was $638 at the GA factory. I can’t comment on track bar cost as mine is DIY ($115 for fabrication) w/$170 install labor. I’m still not satisfied with the handling but it’s better than stock. IMO, the F53 stock setup is under controlled in the sway & shock categories. I found the floating somewhat mitigated with the SafeTPlus but mostly it eliminated a zillion steering micro corrections so fatigue was reduced. The floating seems to be reduced with new Koni shocks or so the posts in this forum indicate—this will be my next upgrade. Sumo springs have mixed opinions. The bottom line, of course, is to get you to not hate driving it.

[Agilitydog]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

I'll throw my two cents in here......Go slowly.....my brother in law bought a new Fleetwood Southwind after selling a diesel pusher he had for years. Immediately, he wanted it to handle better. He decided to add everything you could to the coach, pretty much all at once. He changed the front sway bar, added a second sway bar to the rear. Changed shocks, added Sumo springs and a rear track bar. When he was all done, he had turned it into a tank....as it road like one. It was now tooooo stiff.

The moral of the story, go slowly with your changes. IMO.....it's a must to add the track bar to keep the coach from walking/wobbling on the chassis. The track bar should be the first improvement. The second.....manufacturers always use okay shocks, but never the best for the chassis. I find that Koni has always been the best shock for diesel pushers, but after reading years of results on here, Bilsteins seem to perform better on the gas chassis.

Install the shocks and track bar and then take the coach on a trip and see how it performs. If you still feel that it's leaning too much in the turns, then install a sway bar. If I recall on my BIL's chassis (24K) you could add a second one to the rear and replace the front with a heavier duty model. Before you go forward with the sway bars, try to get a feel for the lean (if you're still having issues). Is it dipping in the front or is the rear really causing the lean. If you can determine that, start with just the sway bar that will help that first.

I've added the Sumo springs to a pickup truck, but have never experienced what it does for a motor home.

You mentioned Koni....... I have a 2020 Ventana and I think the ride is awful. Tremendous bounce at bridges and road dips. Had tires checked and reset PSI. That helped. Was up at Spartan in Michigan and they stated that Koni can not be placed on a 2020 Ventana. In your opinion, one who is more knowledgeable than I, does this make sense? I am still attempting to improve the ride.

[Bentgypsy]

Thanks for the reminder to take it slow! of course, time is running out for when I will meet my sister in September.
Re CHF: seems like most owners have done it themselves (?) Will truck or RV service centers do it or even know how to do it?
I agree, the steering stabilizer cost seems really high. i’m going to shop around. don’t know about the track bar.
I’m leaning towards doing those two jobs first.

[Indy Glenn]

Originally Posted by Bentgypsy

For the Safe-T Plus Red steering stabilizer (my Baystar sometimes feels like it’s floating) they’re charging me $746 plus $510 for labor ($170/hr. For labor).
Trac Bar is $685 plus $340 labor ( not sure it will make much of a difference, since my Baystar is not quite 29 feet there isn’t a lot of overhang beyond the rear axle).
Front Sumo Springs Is $758 plus $510 for labor ( seems to be mixed opinions as to how much The springs help with the swing back-and-forth)

As I have previously said in this thread, "I'm no mechanic", but have a great relationship with my mechanic, he explains a lot to me - and it makers sense.

I had Safe-T-Plus installed.....I bet it took him less than a half hour. Nothing to remove, just set the front wheels straight and attach. He did have to make a small adjustment as it was pulling to on side, less than 10 minutes later it was done and working fine......that was 3 years ago and still ok.

Sumos, which helped immensely with our side to side roll, are a little more labor extensive, backs more than the fronts.

I believe this dealer has a scheduling problem, which costs you $170ph.

To test my theories, check with the Safe-T-Plus people, ask how long is installation.

Good luck.....

g