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Old 06-02-2021, 09:11 PM   #1
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Exclamation Propane Tank Over Filled.

Someone direct me to the right thread. I've been gone awhile. Just got the propane tank filled on the Newmar Bay Star 3124 at a much different location form past fills. Got down the road and stopped and smelled very strong propane. The fitting at the bottom of the propane tank was spitting out liquid propane. The gauge shows beyond 100%. It should be no more than 85%, I know. I sat and let the purge valve vent for a while and then closed it. No more smell of propane but I don't want to get it out on the road on a hot day. What is the next step? I thought I would take it to a propane tank company in the area. Live and learn with people filling tanks that think they know what they are doing.
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Old 06-02-2021, 09:18 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl II View Post
Someone direct me to the right thread. I've been gone awhile. Just got the propane tank filled on the Newmar Bay Star 3124 at a much different location form past fills. Got down the road and stopped and smelled very strong propane. The fitting at the bottom of the propane tank was spitting out liquid propane. The gauge shows beyond 100%. It should be no more than 85%, I know. I sat and let the purge valve vent for a while and then closed it. No more smell of propane but I don't want to get it out on the road on a hot day. What is the next step? I thought I would take it to a propane tank company in the area. Live and learn with people filling tanks that think they know what they are doing.

Where did you get it filled? Was it a new guy running the propane fill?

Take it back to whoever filled the tank and have them make it right.....!

Also, I'm sure the management would want to know so they can retrain the person who messed up...
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Old 06-02-2021, 10:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl II View Post
Got down the road and stopped and smelled very strong propane. The fitting at the bottom of the propane tank was spitting out liquid propane. The gauge shows beyond 100%. It should be no more than 85%, I know. I sat and let the purge valve vent for a while and then closed it. No more smell of propane but I don't want to get it out on the road on a hot day. What is the next step? I thought I would take it to a propane tank company in the area.......


Now, wait a minute....
1. The fitting at the bottom of the propane tank was spitting out liquid propane.
2. The gauge shows beyond 100%. It should be no more than 85%, I know.
3. I sat and let the purge valve vent for a while and then closed it.
4. No more smell of propane

Sounds like your gauge is trash. Also possibly the fill limiter inside the tank. With the exception of the fitting on the bottom leaking, this sounds ok to me. A fitting *on the bottom* of the tank would be spitting propane even if the tank were only 1/4 full! Iíve never noticed any fitting on the bottom of my tank.
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Old 06-02-2021, 10:15 PM   #4
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Valve on bottom of tank...that would be the Relief Valve
It opens from high pressure building up in tank.....275# to 315# are typical valve settings depending on which spring set is used in the valve

Relief Valve open ended pipe sticks up into the Vapor Area so if it was spitting Liquid then Tank was overfilled

Which brings up HOW?
Fill valve has an OPD (Overfill Protection Device) which is designed to STOP liquid propane filling at 80% tank capacity
Failed??

Attendant should have cracked open the Fix Level Gauge (bleed valve)
Open ended pipe for bleed valve is Fixed at 80% liquid level
It should vent vapor then spit liquid propane when at the 80% capacity
That is when filling should be secured
Attendant FAILED

What size tank....25 gal so 20 gal at 80%

Venting it off bleed valve will take several days
Take it to Bulk Propane Dealer and have them recovery the propane and get it back to 80%

Do NOT attempt to burn it off via an appliance
That high of liquid level could easily put liquid propane into LP Regulator destroying it...possibly getting to the LP System which would cause major issues at the appliance gas valves and damage them

Park RV in shade if at all possible to minimize heating the propane tank and causing pressures inside tank to increase...relief valve popping open again


LP Tank components ---Left to Right
Tank level gauge assembly
Relief Valve with stand pipe into Vapor Zone
Fill Valve with OPD
Fix Level Gauge (bleed valve) with stand pipe at 80%
Vapor/Service Valve with stand pipe into Vapor Zone

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Old 06-02-2021, 10:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
Valve on bottom of tank...that would be the Relief Valve
It opens from high pressure building up in tank.....275# to 315# are typical valve settings depending on which spring set is used in the valve

Relief Valve open ended pipe sticks up into the Vapor Area so if it was spitting Liquid then Tank was overfilled

Which brings up HOW?
Fill valve has an OPD (Overfill Protection Device) which is designed to STOP liquid propane filling at 80% tank capacity
Failed??

Attendant should have cracked open the Fix Level Gauge (bleed valve)
Open ended pipe for bleed valve is Fixed at 80% liquid level
It should vent vapor then spit liquid propane when at the 80% capacity
That is when filling should be secured
Attendant FAILED

What size tank....25 gal so 20 gal at 80%

Venting it off bleed valve will take several days
Take it to Bulk Propane Dealer and have them recovery the propane and get it back to 80%

Do NOT attempt to burn it off via an appliance
That high of liquid level could easily put liquid propane into LP Regulator destroying it...possibly getting to the LP System which would cause major issues at the appliance gas valves and damage them

Park RV in shade if at all possible to minimize heating the propane tank and causing pressures inside tank to increase...relief valve popping open again


LP Tank components ---Left to Right
Tank level gauge assembly
Relief Valve with stand pipe into Vapor Zone
Fill Valve with OPD
Fix Level Gauge (bleed valve) with stand pipe at 80%
Vapor/Service Valve with stand pipe into Vapor Zone

I'm somewhat confused. You state that the 2nd, 4th, and 5th valves have stand pipes that go to the 80% level. The second and fifth pipes appear to reach that level. The 4th pipe seems to only reach about the 50% level. If this just an optical illusion due to the picture or am I missing something. Are the vapor zone and the 80% level are different levels?
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Old 06-02-2021, 10:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by arcaguy View Post
I'm somewhat confused. You state that the 2nd, 4th, and 5th valves have stand pipes that go to the 80% level. The second and fifth pipes appear to reach that level. The 4th pipe seems to only reach about the 50% level. If this just an optical illusion due to the picture or am I missing something. Are the vapor zone and the 80% level are different levels?
YES
Liquid level is fixed at 80% tank capacity
Vapor Zone is where Relief Valve and Service Valve reach so that only Vapor is expelled

LP Tank components ---Left to Right
Tank level gauge assembly
Relief Valve with stand pipe into Vapor Zone
Fill Valve with OPD
Fix Level Gauge (bleed valve) with stand pipe at 80%
Vapor/Service Valve with stand pipe into Vapor Zone

Vapor Zone is ABOVE the 80% Liquid Level.
Bleed Valve stand pipe is AT that 80% Liquid Level
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Old 06-03-2021, 02:04 AM   #7
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When you opened the bleed valve, was it spitting out liquid propane in a vapor cloud, or just hissing gas ?

If it was just hissing gas, it wasn't over filled.
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Old 06-04-2021, 08:42 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
When you opened the bleed valve, was it spitting out liquid propane in a vapor cloud, or just hissing gas ?

If it was just hissing gas, it wasn't over filled.
I appreciate the responses. First let me say after the fact regarding the HOW comment....This fill was done at my new locale instead of my old one where it was filled at my storage facility. The obvious result speaks of two obvious problems- The lady who was doing the refill did not know what she was doing and #2, I was not paying attention to her lack of knowledge. This issue is something that all should be aware could happen to you if you are not paying attention when the person that is filling your tank seems a bit questionable. I will no longer go to a gas station for my refills.

When I opened up the bleeder valve when I got home it was venting a visible stream which I let it do all day long until it stopped and you could only hear the venting. The gauge does work because I watched it all day slowly, very slowly go down to the 3/4 mark. Once it hit that mark, I closed the bleeder valve.

The pressure relief valve at the bottom of the tank is my next question. Should there be some type of plastic cap on it because I just cannot remember. I am surmising that something should be there to protect it from debris. Can someone take a look on their Newmar and advise. I need to find a replacement. I do plan on having the valves and system checked when I can find a service location.
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Old 06-04-2021, 09:06 AM   #9
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Your tank has a overfill valve that should prevent overfilling, no matter how or who fills it.

We have a small, 9 gallon tank, and we get it filled often. 75% of the people don't follow all of the procedures. That's how safety things came about.

It needs to be fixed, which means tank drained and fill valve removed.
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Old 06-04-2021, 12:11 PM   #10
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YES the Relief Valve should have a dust cap

YES the OPD (Overfill Protection Device) SHOULD have stopped filling of tank at 80% liquid level
***Part of the Fill Valve Assembly

BUT... the OPD is NOT fail safe and if vendors pump is allowed to continue to run...the pump pressure CAN force liquid past the OPD seat
It is after all just a float actuated device.

Should have Closed the Service/Vapor Valve
Should have cracked open Bleed Valve
Should have Shut pump off when Bleed Valve squirted Liquid vs Vapor
Should have opened recirc on supply hose...relieving line pressure and disconnected
Should have opened service/vapor valve....but I prefer to do that myself so it is opened SLOWLY and doesn't trip any Excess Flow Devices installed

And biggest should have:
TRAINING/CERTIFICATION to dispense Liquid Propane!!!!

Sounds like the 'attendant' needs TRAINING and that vendor should be made aware of the Overfilling that occurred


Federal regulations for dispensing and refilling propane tanks are set by the National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA), the Department of Transportation (DOT) and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA).

The NFPA requires documented training on propane handling procedures, with refresher training every three years, for anyone who dispenses propane.


PLEASE take the time/effort to inform that vendor for ALL
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Old 06-04-2021, 12:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl II View Post
I appreciate the responses. First let me say after the fact regarding the HOW comment....This fill was done at my new locale instead of my old one where it was filled at my storage facility. The obvious result speaks of two obvious problems- The lady who was doing the refill did not know what she was doing and #2, I was not paying attention to her lack of knowledge. This issue is something that all should be aware could happen to you if you are not paying attention when the person that is filling your tank seems a bit questionable. I will no longer go to a gas station for my refills.

When I opened up the bleeder valve when I got home it was venting a visible stream which I let it do all day long until it stopped and you could only hear the venting. The gauge does work because I watched it all day slowly, very slowly go down to the 3/4 mark. Once it hit that mark, I closed the bleeder valve.


The pressure relief valve at the bottom of the tank is my next question. Should there be some type of plastic cap on it because I just cannot remember. I am surmising that something should be there to protect it from debris. Can someone take a look on their Newmar and advise. I need to find a replacement. I do plan on having the valves and system checked when I can find a service location.

Once you open the bleeder valve and start to get vapor instead of liquid, then you are at the safe level (~80%). I will check mine, as I am not sure if there are any dust caps on the relief valve (which should be the same tank style regardless of the RV manufacture). ~CA

I just checked mine, it only has a dust cap on the fill connection. Also, it doesn't have as many connections as in the picture arcaguy shared, so perhaps there is a difference in the tanks different RV manufactures use. ~CA
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Old 06-04-2021, 02:07 PM   #12
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Once you open the bleeder valve and start to get vapor instead of liquid, then you are at the safe level (~80%). I will check mine, as I am not sure if there are any dust caps on the relief valve (which should be the same tank style regardless of the RV manufacture). ~CA

I just checked mine, it only has a dust cap on the fill connection. Also, it doesn't have as many connections as in the picture arcaguy shared, so perhaps there is a difference in the tanks different RV manufactures use. ~CA
Every Tank has
Relief valve
Fixed Level Gauge...bleed valve
Fill Valve
Service/Vapor Valve
and should have level gauge

That is 5 components

How many do you have and what is missing???????
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Old 06-04-2021, 02:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
Every Tank has
Relief valve
Fixed Level Gauge...bleed valve
Fill Valve
Service/Vapor Valve
and should have level gauge

That is 5 components

How many do you have and what is missing???????

Perhaps the picture will allow you to tell me which is missing. I have a guage, fill valve, service connection, and a bleed valve. Perhaps the relief and bleed valve is one in the same (or the relief valve is under the cover for the regulator)? I haven't removed the regulator's plastic cover ever (looks riveted, not sure) but I plan to do so whenever I install the extend a stay kit, likely sometime before winter. ~Craig
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Old 06-04-2021, 02:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by craigav View Post
Perhaps the picture will allow you to tell me which is missing. I have a guage, fill valve, service connection, and a bleed valve. Perhaps the relief and bleed valve is one in the same (or the relief valve is under the cover for the regulator)? I haven't removed the regulator's plastic cover ever (looks riveted, not sure) but I plan to do so whenever I install the extend a stay kit, likely sometime before winter. ~Craig

Update, I agree that I should have another connection (relief valve) and so I decided to get under the tank and look, just outside of the picture almost directly below and slightly forward of the service valve and not visible from above, I found the pressure relief valve. There is no dust cover on it but it is there after all. CA (I didn't have my phone with me or I would have grabbed another picture).
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