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Old 08-10-2014, 09:23 PM   #1
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Questions on Dometic Electric Toilets in '14 and newer Newmar products

For those who have them -- in '14 Dutch Star and up -- I have two questions on the Dometic electric toilets that I can't seem to find answers to. I would be grateful for any information that can help:

(1) When the red LED light comes on, does the Dometic toilet allow any "emergency" flushes if the flush button is pushed and held on -- like the Thetford?

(2) Is there any easy way that both Dometic toilets, once installed, can be scaled back in terms of water usage when flushed? By 'easy', I am talking about being able to adjust the water consumption by the toilet control on the bath wall or something similar -- but not by having to go into the bowels (no pun intended) of the coach to fool around with anything else.

Many thanks.

Deek
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:02 PM   #2
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Now why would you be nervous about toilets?

I thought you were he resident toilet expert. A guy that really knows his s#!t.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:47 PM   #3
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Just trying to make a better widget!

)))))

Deek


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Old 08-11-2014, 04:10 PM   #4
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Deeker, the first question for someone to ask is are the 15's exuipped with the new version of the 8700 Dometic toilet like I have? The way to tell is there is a single, ugly? 2 in hole at the bottom...the earlier ones had no hole showing because water flowed to the rear and over aa wier, which you can't see. This new on carries the same 8700 designation, so the only way to tell is through this description. But this one can flush with about a half quart of water, if needed.

But if you are thinking Mtn. aire, won't it be equipped with the larger holding tanks? 60 and 80 gals? If it has the Manobloc unit, you can easily cut back the toilet water flow with that. And the wall switch can be set to high or low flush by holding it in for 5 seconds.

The best way to allow for emergency flushes is to disconnect the yellow wire on the brain of one of the toilets. I know you'll be sufficiently aware of tank levels and when the red light comes on you can simply use the other toilet for another 5 flushes. That's what we do....and it IS about 5 more flushes.
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:32 PM   #5
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But if you are thinking Mtn. aire, won't it be equipped with the larger holding tanks? 60 and 80 gals? If it has the Manobloc unit, you can easily cut back the toilet water flow with that. And the wall switch can be set to high or low flush by holding it in for 5 seconds.
Yes, thinking about MA. The '15 brochure that Steinbring posted on its website (not the "official" Newmar brochure) seems to show 45 gal. black tank, 65 gal. grey tank and 105 gal. fresh water. Don't see anything in that brochure about Manobloc unit.

Quote:
The best way to allow for emergency flushes is to disconnect the yellow wire on the brain of one of the toilets. I know you'll be sufficiently aware of tank levels and when the red light comes on you can simply use the other toilet for another 5 flushes. That's what we do....and it IS about 5 more flushes.
This makes perfect sense. The dealer I am working with suggested about the same thing. He just advises, of course, to keep a close eye on the Silverleaf to make sure you don't flush 'over' the capacity and end up with the kind of mess that none of us want from the black tank exceeding its drop dead limit. Five flushes before then would be more than I would need for security. I am mainly thinking about the red light coming on at 10:30 or 11:00 p.m. after a movie or the Notre Dame / Southern Cal game and having the freedom to use another flush or two to get through the night before having to dump the black tank the following morning. That would be sufficient for me for sure.

I also heard privately from a couple of the Hoots with '14 models that there is no "emergency" flush on the Dometic like there is on our '13 Thetfords so that makes clear that if we go forward with the MA, we will need to go to Plan B with: (1) adjustment of flow per your instructions; (2) resetting of tank sensors so that the toilets do not shut off when the Silverleaf hits 70% capacity (as several have reported and Newmar confirms will happen without resetting of the sensors); (3) removal of the yellow wire to the brain of the toilets. These are all pretty easily do-able in my thinking.

Plus, for the good of the order, I had a lengthy call the other day from a top Newmar person who explained to me about why Newmar went with Dometic v. Thetford in the electric toilet department. Bottom line is that Newmar had enough complaints with things getting stuck in the Thetfords and having enough service calls to take them apart to fix them, that they made the decision in model year '14, after extensive testing of all available toilets, to use Dometic because it has a more heavy duty macerator mechanism than Thetford and flushed everything the testers could give it (apparently Thetford was asked to come up to the efficiency standard of the Dometic but they refused). Dometic = steel teeth v. plastic in Thetford macerator mechanism.

So ... heavier duty toilet that consistently flushes is what Newmar wants, at the same time recognizing the issues relating to (1) too much water consumption, (2) need to recalibrate the Silverleaf to allow more than 70% black water capacity and (3) lack of three LED light system -- all of which Newmar is apparently working with Dometic right now to have Dometic improve.

What this will all boil down to with our MA order, if we go forward, is a bit up in the air right now. If I can get adjustment of tank sensors to go to 85-90% capacity on Silverleaf before shutting down the toilets and if, with a simple wiring change, I can get the toilets to give us a few extra flushes after the light goes to red, I think the heavier duty Dometic toilets would be fine and would work out. A bit less water consumption, if needed after those changes, would simply be icing on the cake.

I now think I am willing to take a chance on the Dometic toilets, especially since I know there are good souls like you on this Forum who can help me out of any problems I manage to get myself into in going ahead.

Thanks again, Slabby.

Deek
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:22 AM   #6
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Before I left on this trip I took the coach to a local deqler in TX and filled all tanks to the max. The tech then set my Silverleaf readings to 100% at those levels. So now the full mark/ light on the Dometic switch comes on when reading 100%, so there is no 70% issue anymore.

Steinbring may just be giving you the tank sizes as they were before...dealers aren't always that up to speed on these things, ya know. So I'd check with the factory. Also, ask them about the new toilet...they may not know either, but insist someone find out for you. I'm impressed they jumped on this tank issue and did some re-engineering for the "upper crust" coaches. But for the Dutch guys, they still have the same problems, I'm afraid. As I said before, Newmar is excellent at marketing...if you want the bigger tanks, well, you know how much deeper in your pocket you need to dig.

Finally, I can agree that macerator blade on the Dpmetic is quite heavy duty and is much easier to take apart when someone does something stupid about feeding a no-no into the toilet. I've taken both of them apart and definitely prefer disassembling the Dometic.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:16 AM   #7
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Plus, for the good of the order, I had a lengthy call the other day from a top Newmar person who explained to me about why Newmar went with Dometic v. Thetford in the electric toilet department. Bottom line is that Newmar had enough complaints with things getting stuck in the Thetfords and having enough service calls to take them apart to fix them, that they made the decision in model year '14, after extensive testing of all available toilets, to use Dometic because it has a more heavy duty macerator mechanism than Thetford and flushed everything the testers could give it (apparently Thetford was asked to come up to the efficiency standard of the Dometic but they refused). Dometic = steel teeth v. plastic in Thetford macerator mechanism.

So ... heavier duty toilet that consistently flushes is what Newmar wants, at the same time recognizing the issues relating to (1) too much water consumption, (2) need to recalibrate the Silverleaf to allow more than 70% black water capacity and (3) lack of three LED light system -- all of which Newmar is apparently working with Dometic right now to have Dometic improve.
Deek ... thanks for posting this information as it really helps explain the reasoning that went into this decision. I have never had any issues yet ... but we are super careful about what goes down them ... and if any visitors use them ... they get the warning before going in!

BTW ... be sure and keep the MA order process moving forward!

Steve
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:03 AM   #8
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The good news is that the Dometic macerator unit is easily taken apart and repaired by the owner.
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Old 08-15-2014, 09:06 PM   #9
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Deek

BTW ... be sure and keep the MA order process moving forward!

Steve

We're moving ahead. It's down to the Air Force One removal from the DS and installation on the MA. If yes, it's a deal! Delivery promised by about Halloween!

Can't remember when I have been this excited -- maybe when the DS was ordered??!!

Deek
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Old 08-15-2014, 09:50 PM   #10
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I knew it....I knew it......I knew it!!!! . Congrats!!!!
Now....hope you didn't order another air bed!
BTW....did you verify the black tank size? And whether it has the new Dometic toilet?
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:06 PM   #11
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Congratulation Deek and Joanne! So excited for you. Can't you put a rush on it and have it ready for the Hoots II event?
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:51 AM   #12
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Deek is leading the way!!!

Can you give us a preview of some of the options and specials you all are getting??

Steve
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:13 PM   #13
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'15 MA deal finalized!

Not sure about 'leading the way', but we did finalize our MA deal late this afternoon and we are headed toward owning a '15 Mountain Aire 4503! Scary and exciting both at the same time. Anybody have the same experience???

The changes they made for '15, especially in this model, really knocked us off our feet. We went out to Newmar to talk to Michelle Howard and to look at the coach when it started in production. We were both wow'd by all we saw. They have made some fantastic changes to this model for 2015 and the value of what you are getting this year in MA is big.

In my thinking, with very little difference, the '15 Mountain Aire is virtually identical to what you got in the '14 Essex, for about 150K less. For us, larger tires and wheels, more room, three airs, bigger motor, huge bathroom with two person vanities and sinks, more storage in mid coach (pantry) and bath (linen closet), induction cooktop, solid surface shower, full Girard awnings, heated floor, 12.5 gen set, Silverleaf are all things that will be upgrades for us. We are really loving this lifestyle and with living in the coach for five to six months at River Bend, we spent a lot of time thinking about this then decided to go for it.

If we like it as much as our 4018, we'll be in business. Thanks for the encouragement, fellow Hoots.

Options of note: Induction cooktop, heated floor, all electric (of course), AGM batteries, Coastal (natural) Cherry cabinets (as opposed to Carmel glaze Cherry cabinets), Full Girard awning package (all windows and two full Girard awnings on the door side), GE Advantium 120 microwave/convection oven, custom larger than stock cabinets on door side, chrome pulls on exterior storage compartments, London Aire tile pattern which we liked for backsplash in kitchen, baths and in shower, Trip Info on display screen, King Aire hardware and drawer and door pulls, solid wood doors in rear of coach for closet in lieu of mirrors like King Aire, some King Aire fabrics, a number of additional USB and 110v outlets throughout the coach. We also asked not to have the oval reveal on the beautiful wood trim throughout the coach -- in the stock MA, these have "mood lights" in them -- they agreed to keep the wood intact without the mood lighting there (but we still got the cool squiggles on the facia above with the mood lights in them).

It's gonna be a tough day for both of us when we give up our 4018 -- really tough. What a fabulous, flawless, wonderful coach. How nice it would be for someone to buy it before it has to get traded -- we would so love to see it go to the right home. Thankfully, we get to have it through Hoots before it has to be given up near Halloween for our Mountain Aire delivery. We will use it all we can before it goes.

Deek
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:17 PM   #14
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Congrats Deek, I really want to see the difference in basement storage.

Supposed to be taller.
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