Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Newmar Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-07-2015, 08:00 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Anywhere, USA
Posts: 451
Re-design Black Tank Flushing System

Background:

RV Black tank dumping problems and sensors not reading correct are among the most discussed topics on RV forums. Most RV'ers have or will experience the dreaded black tank will not drain; and or the sensor reading of black tank does not reflect reality. Owners of macerating toilets such as the Thetford Tecma toilet have seen the dreaded Red Light on their wall mounted controller, when they know their tank is empty.

After several years of living with the problem, I was resolute to improve my black tank draining and get better sensor readout. In my 2007 Newmar MADP 4528 chemicals, and my built-in tank quick flusher have been only partially successful. The front mounted Newmar tank monitor system has non-contact sensors mounted on the outside walls of tanks. Link: https://tankedge.com/accessories.html


The rear Thetford Tecma toilet in the Mountain Aire has had many episodes of the dreaded red light and will not normally flush, with an empty tank, without an override. The DW has not been happy with this and I do hear about it. Removed the peg board in front of the drive wheels, passenger side, and located the two rear toilet tank sensors.

They were secure and correctly mounted. All the wiring looked good. Thought about it awhile and the DW suggested to relocate the sensors, to see if that would get a different result.
Cleaned the new tank location with denatured alcohol, peeled the old double-sided sticky tape from sensors, moved the wiring and remounted the two sensors using 3-M brand outside rated, 10 lb double sided sticky tape. DW went inside to check the rear toilet and No Red Light! Eureka, the real culprit here was the build-up on the inside of the black tank wall effecting the rear toilet sensors and also the primary tank level sensors readout. The only real confusion was why did the Newmar installed internal tank flusher not help, even with frequent usage?

Located Newmar's built-in tank flusher, driver's side wet bay, behind the usual plumbing white panel. This is the opposite side of the coach from all the tank sensors on the passenger side. Why did Newmar mount it there? Looked up the tank flusher manufacture' s installation recommendations and the second line of the instructions said to locate opposite end from drain. Only reason to mount it on the drain end of the tank, I can think of, is that was just easy. Definition of Easy is " not difficult, not causing problems or difficulty, or not requiring much effort, work, or thought. Bad Newmar!


Knew I had to get a tank flusher near the sensor, passenger side, to attempt remove the black tank wall crud.


See drawing, look at the two reduced height black tank sections for frame members. This is an another design flaw, in my opinion, that totally rendered the built in tank flusher useless for most of the tank volume. There is no way the tank flusher can get through the two dropped sections at frame members to the opposite end of tank, where the sensor is. Again, Bad Newmar. I hope they have improved their 2007 design on later models, but I suspect they and many other Class A manufacture's use the same tank design. It would behoove RV owners to look at their black tank design. Enough gloom and doom, on to the Fix!


Removed the wet bay white plumbing panel, located the flush tank PEX piping, followed it from hose connection to vacuum breaker (anti-siphon device) in mid-coach bathroom cabinet and back to the built-in tank flusher. Cut the PEX pipe about 2-foot short of the flusher and ran new 1/2"PEX tubing to a new three ball valve manifold mounted on back side of existing white plumbing panel. Mounted the three ball valves with aluminum strap, secured from front of panel with self tapping screws, just like the water tank fill valve. Had new plastic labels engraved at local trophy shop, applied contact cement and carefully placed new Labels for valves.

Ran new 1/2" PEX tubing to existing drain side tank flusher and two new long runs above tanks to passenger side peg board area. The three new ball valves allow me to select which end of black to flush and to also flush the passenger side of the gray tank. I added the new gray tank flusher, so the grey tank sensors and tank could also get a rinsing.

Selected the Camco Tornado flusher for the two new flushing locations.

The rotating head with 10 jets appears to get better results than the fixed spray nozzle one that Newmar installed. I do have a word of caution here, check for proper rotation prior to installing in tank. I checked both with direct hose hoop-up with the DW holding the end of the hose. One did not rotate, one was great. Returned the defective one and the replacement worked great also. For some reason the DW would not again hold the replacement Tornado, at end of garden hose to check rotation, LOL.


First Test of New Flushing system: Hooked up the dedicated flushing hose to white plumbing panel connection, turned on water. Closed gray blade valve and pulled the black tank blade valve to do a dump. Once dump was done I turned on ball valve controlling the Tornado Black tank flusher at the sensor end of black tank. Observed the clear section in sewer hose. The results were things flowing, flowing, and flowing through that clear section for about 10 minutes. Then I closed that valve and opened the fixed nozzle flusher at the drain end of the black tank. Got some more out for a couple of minutes. Then repeated the process at the other end of the tank till it again ran clear, then drain end again. I had never extracted that much debris from the Black tank. The gray tank also had much more debris in it than I thought possible.


Have done four more complete flushes since I installed the New flushing system and front main tank sensor readout has been spot on as to tank levels. Thetford Tecma toilet wall mounted controller is green when tank is empty, goes to yellow with the tank 1/2 full. The yellow Tecma light agrees with the front tank monitoring system, 1/2 full black tank. The Black tank drains much quicker now and just sounds like a more effective drain process.


Highly recommend you install additional built-in tank flushers in your Black and Gray tanks, to correct sensor readings and insure that your black tank dumps quickly every time. Rear bath units with Thetford Tecma toilet will also benefit. Many dollars, IMHO, have been spent chasing perfectly good Tecma sensors and controls.



Best $245 dollars I have ever spent on my RV.


Questions?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Flush Valves 1.jpg
Views:	428
Size:	90.9 KB
ID:	102381   Click image for larger version

Name:	Flushers RV Tanks.jpg
Views:	539
Size:	290.5 KB
ID:	102382  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Black Tank Section Drawing.jpg
Views:	216
Size:	25.8 KB
ID:	102383  
shaman52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-07-2015, 08:19 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Qwert66's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 894
Send a message via Skype™ to Qwert66
Re-design Black Tank Flushing System

Nice job and results.
The vacume break(s) for the 2 new flushers per code are where?
__________________
1999 Newmar Mountain Aire MADP 4080, Cummins ISC 8.3L, Allison, Spartan MM IFS, Howard Power Center, Chev Trailblazer LTZ Towed w/ BlueOx rigging, Segway X2.
www.shaw11.com
Qwert66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 08:28 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert66 View Post
Nice job and results.
The vacume break(s) for the 2 new flushers per code are where?
You missed this in the post , as I am sure you know, you only need one device........this is from the post:

Removed the wet bay white plumbing panel, located the flush tank PEX piping, followed it from hose connection to vacuum breaker (anti-siphon device) in mid-coach bathroom cabinet and back to the built-in tank flusher. Cut the PEX pipe about 2-foot short of the flusher and ran new 1/2"PEX tubing to a new three ball valve manifold mounted on back...

Regards,
Dan
__________________
2014 40QBH Phaeton DP Cummins 380HP ISL, Freightliner XC, 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk TOAD
Blue Ox Aventa tow bar, SMI Air Force One -Cave Creek, AZ.
dpinvidic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 10:16 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Anywhere, USA
Posts: 451
See attached picture for Vacuum Breaker. This does feed the three 1/2" ball valve manifold, from there the water goes to the three flush devices.

Attached picture so RV owners know what to look for. These vacuum breakers have been known to flood the bathroom.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Vacumn Breaker Mid Coach Sink.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	149.4 KB
ID:	102422  
shaman52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 10:17 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 168
Remember, no cross connect with fresh water. Is there a something to stop sewage from going back into fresh water? Like the idea but?
zrobotman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 10:35 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
dennis45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AB
Posts: 7,587
I am impressed with your workmanship but I'm not sure, at least in my case that it's all necessary.
When I first acquired my DS, the sensors did not work. After a little research I came across the Happy Campers Extreem product and used as directed. This corrected the sensor problem.
Since then, I have used the HC Regular product exclusively, with copious amounts of water and have not had an issue in five years. We use normal two ply tissue mostly from Costco.
First, I always make sure my tanks are near full before dumping,
Second, I always have a few gallons of liquid when traveling to slosh around with HC added.
I commend your rework but it's not something I would tackle. If it ain't broke, don't fix it is my motto.
__________________
2019 Unity LTV CB, pushed by a 2013 Honda CRV, BlueOx Baseplate, Aventa Bar & Patriot Brake
dennis45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 12:11 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Anywhere, USA
Posts: 451
This my not work for everyone. It depends on your black tank design.The black tank design could be different on non bath & half models. See the drawing of our tank in previous post. This is a Newmar design for the bath & half model. It already came with an internal tank flusher but Newmar placed it on the drain side not on the other end that has the stick on sensors. With out a way to clean the buildup off the sides, the sensors for the back bathroom toilet Tecma By Thetford would get erratic readings. Their have been some posts about the problems with the Tecma By Thetford toilet the same we had and no one had an answer. They have spent a great amount of money thinking it was the toilet.Therefore after a thorough investigation I added a second internal tank flusher on the other end. After flushing out the black tank I turn on the second tank flusher I installed WOW the stuff that came out. I can even turn on both internal tanker flusher's. I have no smell coming out of the black tanks now. The grey tank sometimes smells and there is no way to really get a good flush so we installed an internal tank flusher and boy did we get a surprise of the small stuff that came out.
shaman52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 01:35 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Qwert66's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 894
Send a message via Skype™ to Qwert66
Thanks for the clarification on vent.
Again great job of making it your own as most do once the pucker factor goes beyond the dealer/mfgr help.
__________________
1999 Newmar Mountain Aire MADP 4080, Cummins ISC 8.3L, Allison, Spartan MM IFS, Howard Power Center, Chev Trailblazer LTZ Towed w/ BlueOx rigging, Segway X2.
www.shaw11.com
Qwert66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 01:42 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
PDR John's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,816
Good job.

I think they may have changed locations, if I recall, our black tank rinse is on the opposite side as yours. I also added a grey tank rinse, it does help clean out the grey tank.

I really like the manifold idea, if I ever rebuild the wet bay wall I'll copy that idea for sure.
__________________
2011 MVP Tahoe 230 QB on Ford E350 Chassis
PDR John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 03:00 PM   #10
YC1
Senior Member
 
YC1's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 11,401
Wow, very elegant but way too complicated for me. I installed a second in tank sprayer on the top of my black tank near the cleanout end where the in tank sensors live. I used a quick disconnect to select from one to the other but just use the new one now. I can watch the light go from red to green in a few seconds now.

In addition to be absolutely sure my tank was getting clean I installed a deck inspection cover that is clear. I can look at the other end of the tank now if wanting to check or can actually wash easily with the removal of the cover. The access hole is a bit anal but I wanted to be sure things were not piling up.
__________________
Certified Senior Electronic Technician, Telecommunications Engineer, Telecommunications repair Service Center Owner, Original owner HR 2008

.
YC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 03:17 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
powerboatr's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North East Texas
Posts: 4,946
i see smart minds think alike
good job
I to removed my "flood prone" breaker that was under the bath room sink...yep it lived up to its name

i placed it in the wet bay area
plus moved a blank tank sprayer over to the other side to flush the area under the toilet drop. i like to think we get a spinning vortec of water in the tank once both flushers are going full speed
__________________
USN Retired, Life time member of the DAV.
Enjoying the 2008 Damon Tuscany 4056, #3998 no your eyes are fine, there are really 6 slides
2022 F150 King Ranch or 2012 Edge toads

powerboatr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tank



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Black Tank/ flushing Texas Jim 45 Entegra Owner's Forum 12 06-24-2015 08:08 PM
Can't find source of black tank odor TomBev Monaco Owner's Forum 35 05-24-2015 09:54 PM
Black Tank Waterfall Curtisgeiger Entegra Owner's Forum 27 04-22-2015 07:47 PM
Black Tank Flush Port? chaps2018 Travel Trailer Discussion 5 02-07-2015 09:08 AM
Black tank question osgoor Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 69 08-24-2014 01:46 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.