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Old 10-20-2021, 10:43 AM   #1
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Reduced HVAC Airflow - Penguin II

One morning during a recent trip I noticed that the airflow from the Kitchen Dometic Penguin II HVAC unit is not as strong as normal. The blower motor runs but all of sudden not as much air comes out of the ceiling vents. Definitely not as much as is produced by each of the other two units. Iím trying to figure out why the airflow is now reduced.

I put a scope into the ductwork and itís clear. No obstructions. I went to the roof, took the shroud off and the blower motor/fan appears to be working as expected when on low or high speed. The sound that the fan makes is slightly different between the Kitchen unit and the others. Iím assuming itís due to a possible air restriction or a slower motor not moving as much air.

Given the ducting system that Newmar uses, the HVAC unit is not mounted directly above the vents so itís not possible to see the underside of the HVAC unit.

Based on my research of AC motors, they run based on the AC power frequency (60 Hz) and the number of poles. Is it possible that the motor can be running at a slower speed? I figured its either running at a slower speed (if thatís possible) or thereís an obstruction. If I remove the blower motor/fan, can I see the duct below it (to verify that thereís no obstruction)?
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Old 10-20-2021, 04:22 PM   #2
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Is the thermostat set on Auto or a set speed? I would compare when they are all set to high.

Have you removed/ cleaned the filters (rectangle 1/4Ē thick mesh)?

- Richard
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Old 10-20-2021, 08:01 PM   #3
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My thought is you have an obstruction, possibly some tape that holds the duct work and insulation in place has come loose and is blocking the airflow.
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Old 10-20-2021, 08:05 PM   #4
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Are you noticing the reduction of air flow in high humidity? What fan setting are you using?
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Old 10-20-2021, 08:08 PM   #5
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Thanks for the responses. The filters are clean and all testing was done with the fan set to high. Thereís no obstruction in the ducts (based on visual using scope), but perhaps something is stuck under the blower fins but before the duct itself. Iíll remove the shroud again and try to use the scope to look from the top side. If necessary, Iíll remove the blower motor/fins.
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Old 10-20-2021, 08:12 PM   #6
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Fan air wheel loose or broken blades/fins??
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Old 10-21-2021, 09:40 AM   #7
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Their is an L shaped foam separator under the AC. It separates the two sides of the ceiling ductwork.

I suppose it is possible that it has failed or become dislodged.
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Old 10-23-2021, 01:04 PM   #8
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If the ac is running at the time? Could it be an ice block developed in the condensar coil?
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Old 10-23-2021, 06:01 PM   #9
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Funny about the whether the AC is running...

I noticed today that the kitchen temperature has remained at 62 degrees for too long. Silverleaf also shows the blower motor (fan) running but it wasn't. Really weird. I pulled/re-installed the "HVAC Controls" 12V fuse and the white fan icon went away. I tried turning on the unit and it wouldn't turn on. Silverleaf shows that it's been turned on (green button) but the icon showing the fan and/or compressor running never showed up. Nor did the unit actually turn on.

I cycled the house 12V power as well as the 120V breaker for the HVAC unit. No change. I also cycled the power for the TM-510 in the overhead cabinet as well as the "HVAC Controls" 12V fuse in the half bath.

Now Silverleaf shows the temperature as 0 degrees and the Kitchen unit won't turn on. I'm guessing the unit won't turn on because of the bad temperature reading. I had this problem once before with the living room unit, although the reported temperature was 72. That time I reseated all the connections on the rooftop circuit board and the problem cleared. Perhaps I'll try that again as I've already rebooted all the other related devices.

EDIT: After reading 0 for 70 minutes, Silverleaf is now showing a good temperature (65 degrees).
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Old 10-25-2021, 11:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
Funny about the whether the AC is running...

I noticed today that the kitchen temperature has remained at 62 degrees for too long. Silverleaf also shows the blower motor (fan) running but it wasn't. Really weird. I pulled/re-installed the "HVAC Controls" 12V fuse and the white fan icon went away. I tried turning on the unit and it wouldn't turn on. Silverleaf shows that it's been turned on (green button) but the icon showing the fan and/or compressor running never showed up. Nor did the unit actually turn on.

I cycled the house 12V power as well as the 120V breaker for the HVAC unit. No change. I also cycled the power for the TM-510 in the overhead cabinet as well as the "HVAC Controls" 12V fuse in the half bath.

Now Silverleaf shows the temperature as 0 degrees and the Kitchen unit won't turn on. I'm guessing the unit won't turn on because of the bad temperature reading. I had this problem once before with the living room unit, although the reported temperature was 72. That time I reseated all the connections on the rooftop circuit board and the problem cleared. Perhaps I'll try that again as I've already rebooted all the other related devices.

EDIT: After reading 0 for 70 minutes, Silverleaf is now showing a good temperature (65 degrees).
I am having similar issue that has gotten to a point where I am unable to use coach until fixed. Started showing a low temp so AC would not run had 2 temp sensors replaced by two different dealers then the dealer found loose wires on controller. All these fixes provided a temp fix, and the next fix replaced the AC controller which we felt was the issue, about 2 hours later we were back to 32 degrees. The tech will try replacing the freeze sensor this Wednesday. Please post if you find an issue
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Old 10-25-2021, 01:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I am having similar issue that has gotten to a point where I am unable to use coach until fixed. Started showing a low temp so AC would not run had 2 temp sensors replaced by two different dealers then the dealer found loose wires on controller. All these fixes provided a temp fix, and the next fix replaced the AC controller which we felt was the issue, about 2 hours later we were back to 32 degrees. The tech will try replacing the freeze sensor this Wednesday. Please post if you find an issue

What Iíve found is that the temperature displayed on my Silverleaf screen (and my home automation app) freezes. I can see that the temperature in the other zones change as the ambient temperature rise or falls. The zone 2 (kitchen) temperature seems to only update 2 or 3 times during a 24 hour period. Itís as if the communications to the zone 2 HVAC unit has stopped.

If I turn the blower fan on (low or high), the Silverleaf display will show the fan on (white fan icon) but the fan doesnít actually turn on.

Iíve found that if I pull the ďHVAC ControlĒ 12V 7.5A fuse in the half bath for 10 seconds (or so) and then reinsert, I can then go to the Silverleaf panel and turn the fan on and it works as expected, but for a limited period of time.

So it seems like some sort of communications issue that clears when the fuse is pulled. I believe the ďHVAC ControlĒ fuse provides power to the first HVAC unit and the power is then fed to the 2nd and 3rd unit via the flat 4 wire communications cable. Let me know if you know otherwise.

Given that the 3rd unit (Bedroom) works okay, it would appear that all is good with the communications cable. The cables goes from the 1st unit control board to the 2nd unit control board and then from the 2nd to the 3rd.

My current thought is that either the TM510 is bad due to voltage spikes from years ago before the flyback diode was added to the charge bridge or the control board in the 2nd unit is bad.

Of note, when I had a HVAC issue in the past, the temperature was stuck on 70 degrees. I swapped the control board between the 1st and 2nd units and the problem was resolved. Not sure if the fix was reseating the wire connectors or the fact that the board was rebooted when the boards were swapped (I did not pull the HVAC Control fuse when the boards were swapped. The current issue is with the same board (unit 1 board moved to unit 2) but the symptoms are different.

I took a look at the data on the RV-C bus and I can see the TM-510 send out the same temperature every 5 seconds. In order to isolate the problem between the TM-510 and the HVAC unit, Iíd like to see what the the HVAC unit is sending to the TM-510 over the 4 wire communications cable, but I donít know what the protocol is. I think itís RS-232, but I couldnít find any documentation. This would clearly tell me if the problem is the HVAC unit control board or the TM-510.

If you have any suggestions or additional insight, let me know.
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Old 10-26-2021, 11:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Their is an L shaped foam separator under the AC. It separates the two sides of the ceiling ductwork.

I suppose it is possible that it has failed or become dislodged.

That would be my guess.

BTW: I replaced all 3 of my P2s this winter: none came with the separator. If you are going to replace your AC, will need to reuse the old separator or buy a new one.

-B
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Old 10-27-2021, 08:05 AM   #13
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That would be my guess.

BTW: I replaced all 3 of my P2s this winter: none came with the separator. If you are going to replace your AC, will need to reuse the old separator or buy a new one.

-B
It makes a difference. Without the separator, you are mixing the return and supply air.
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Old 10-27-2021, 08:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy013 View Post
Funny about the whether the AC is running...

I noticed today that the kitchen temperature has remained at 62 degrees for too long. Silverleaf also shows the blower motor (fan) running but it wasn't. Really weird. I pulled/re-installed the "HVAC Controls" 12V fuse and the white fan icon went away. I tried turning on the unit and it wouldn't turn on. Silverleaf shows that it's been turned on (green button) but the icon showing the fan and/or compressor running never showed up. Nor did the unit actually turn on.

I cycled the house 12V power as well as the 120V breaker for the HVAC unit. No change. I also cycled the power for the TM-510 in the overhead cabinet as well as the "HVAC Controls" 12V fuse in the half bath.

Now Silverleaf shows the temperature as 0 degrees and the Kitchen unit won't turn on. I'm guessing the unit won't turn on because of the bad temperature reading. I had this problem once before with the living room unit, although the reported temperature was 72. That time I reseated all the connections on the rooftop circuit board and the problem cleared. Perhaps I'll try that again as I've already rebooted all the other related devices.

EDIT: After reading 0 for 70 minutes, Silverleaf is now showing a good temperature (65 degrees).
I had a mobile tech out today and he replaced the White Rogers bridge solenoid then tried replacing the freeze sensor with no result he was of the opinion it had to be a Silver leaf issue. Called Art at silverleaf and they walked trough testing everything again, we checked the resistance of the temp sensor several times to determine all was good, Once that was done (about 2 hours with Silverleaf) they said that they thought the TM-510 had gone bad. They said that the white Rogers bridge that was install by Newmar in the 2018 to 2020 (on all models with silverleaf) had fed back and the TM-510 was likely damaged. So bottom line is that one is on order and should be a week or so find out for sure. Silverleaf said they felt everyone with the White Rogers bridge should either install a diode kit or replace the bridge because it will save issues because it will feed back and ruin modules
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